Work That Feeds The Soul with Joanna Sharma | Ep. 23
My guest on this week’s episode of The True North Show is Joanna Sharma. Joanna shares with me how a placement in a tech start-up company during the time she was studying at University, opened the door for her to step into her power of the human side of marketing. She also talks about the challenges she faced when she first started her company, particularly the fact that she didn’t have as much freedom as she thought she would and how asking for help was so incredibly important.
Bio:
Joanna Sharma is a seasoned digital marketing leader with 25 years of experience building data-driven strategies, campaigns, and systems for business growth. As Founding Director of Drum Digital, she has led a team specialising in CRM and automation platforms such as HubSpot and GoHighLevel, delivering streamlined customer journeys and measurable marketing ROI. Joanna’s notable successes include doubling a Sydney law firm’s monthly enquiries without increasing ad spend, reviving sales conversion for a solar company through automation, and leading a five-year transformation for a power supply business, boosting product enquiries by over 50%.
Renowned for her commitment to understanding clients’ businesses and bridging diverse teams, Joanna is known for her strategic vision combined with hands-on execution. She thrives on solving complex digital challenges, turning scattered efforts into performance-driven engines for results.
Now, Joanna is ready to bring her expertise client-side—seeking opportunities to lead and nurture high-performing teams, launch innovative platforms, and demonstrate to boards and stakeholders the full potential of digital marketing done right.
Social Media:
- Website: www.drumdigital.com.au
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drumdigital
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drum_digital/
- LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/drum-digital
- TikTok: @joannasharma
Transcript:
Joanna Sharma is a seasoned digital marketing leader with 25 years of experience building data-driven strategies, campaigns and systems for business growth. As founding director of Drum Digital, she has led a team specializing in CRM and automation platforms such as HubSpot and GoHi Level, delivering streamlined customer journeys and measurable marketing ROI.
Joanna’s notable successes include doubling a Sydney law firm’s monthly inquiries without increasing ad spend, reviving sales conversions for a solar company through automation, and leading a five-year transformation for a power supply business, boosting product inquiries by over 50%. Renowned for her commitment to understanding clients’ businesses and bridging diverse teams,
Joanna is known for her strategic vision combined with hands-on execution. She thrives on solving complex digital challenges, turning scattered efforts into performance-driven engines for results. I’m say energies. Now Joanna is ready to bring her expertise client side, seeking opportunities to lead and nurture high-performing teams, launch innovative platforms,
and demonstrate to boards and stakeholders the full potential of digital marketing done right. So welcome to the show. I have really, really been looking forward for you to come onto the show and for us to have this conversation. Yes.
Joanna Sharma (02:02)
me too. Thank you so much for having me today.
Megan North (02:05)
You’re welcome. You’re welcome. So let’s talk about what you’ve been doing the last 25 years. So Drum Digital. First of all, where did the name come from? Drum Digital.
Joanna Sharma (02:20)
I liked the visual idea. I mean, it has a bit of energy behind it and the visual idea of putting your message out and calling and getting attention and awareness. Also, it’s that musical vibe. I’ve always really loved music. Yeah, so I thought it was a good, can drum up new business and use it in quite a few different capacities in a marketing sense. So yeah, there was a few different angles there.
Megan North (02:44)
Yeah, I love that. That’s really cool. I like that. Yeah, it feels like that, you know, how do you when you’re saying that it’s almost like I can hear the rhythm in my head, you know, that drumming, you know, yeah, we’re really getting some momentum. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So what was the defining moment that led you to pursue your passion and purpose? What was happening for you at the time?
Joanna Sharma (03:00)
There was a lot of movement with it, yeah.
I think I was lucky in the fact that I did find my career quite early on. I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do when I left high school and I did quite a generic business degree. But then very quickly found that I loved the people side of that. so I gravitated to focusing on marketing, which was the area that I felt most closely aligned to understanding people, motivations, is what I did my dissertation on, is why people buy things.
I was really interested in more of the understanding people element of marketing. And I was on a four year sandwich course. my third year I was on a placement and it was with a small startup tech business that was called CD Wow. And they were kind of very much innovative in the space and disrupting the music industry kind of around the time Amazon was starting. ⁓
And I just loved this marriage of marketing and technology and innovation. I was like, found my home. I was just, yeah, just loved it. It was quite interesting actually because it was an internship. They moved me around the business. So my first role was in customer service. I actually think that was probably such a useful couple of months of experience doing that customer service role where I just learned so much about.
the queries people had, challenges, how we overcome them. they really, that business particularly, you know, that was a big part of their proposition. was excellent customer service. So I felt like I got a very good foundation on how you exceed expectations for customers. And I felt like that stayed with me forever. And it was just lucky I had that so early on. I think I just knew I always wanted to work in digital from that point on.
Megan North (04:59)
Wow. And it’s really interesting because I could imagine at the moment too with all the AI and everything that’s coming through as well is that what I’m finding and I’m curious to understand your point of view as well is that people are still, people still want human to human connection. They still want to understand who the person is behind what’s, who’s selling the product or why should they work, particularly coaches and those sort of people. I think that they still want to know who the human is.
Joanna Sharma (05:29)
Absolutely. think that human connection is more important than ever because collateral can be put together so easily using AI. it’s a great tool, but it can’t in any way replace people, especially when you get into that more emotional connection, whether it’s from the customer service you experience or if it’s the strategy that’s unique to your business. You really do need a human element still that makes a real difference, I think.
Megan North (05:57)
Absolutely. And I would imagine too that when you were doing these couple of months of the from the customer service point of view is that you would have my gosh I would imagine you would have had so many aha moments that you probably still use to this day.
Joanna Sharma (06:14)
Yeah, absolutely. And the way that I respond to customer queries and even learning to manage complaints or customers that weren’t happy and how you can actually surprise them and delight them by going, don’t worry, we’ll fix this. And I feel like that customer services and any business that really embraces customer service is a big part of their proposition. think that those ones really do stand out and lead the way. And I think it’s so difficult.
You you can get like AI on the phone, ringing you and it’s just not a great experience, but we didn’t get through quickly and talk to a human and they can actually redress your problems quickly. Like, I think we will remember those moments and go, oh gosh, that was so much easier than I was expecting it to be. yeah, I think it really counts.
Megan North (07:00)
Yeah, absolutely. And I also think too, is that one of the things that I’ve learned in my business is listening to people who I really trust in the sense of getting their feedback. ⁓ I’ve had ⁓ over the last few years, like I’ve launched products or I’ve done something in my business and it just hasn’t landed very well. And so I’ve asked the people that I’ve actually proposed it to, to give me honest feedback in relation
what it was because sometimes I think what I think people want in my head is not actually what people want.
Joanna Sharma (07:38)
Yeah, and think that’s right. It’s a really big part of where we start doing any strategy for a client is with a customer journey. And in an ideal world, you know, your budgets and resources were available, actually doing some research, like actually going out and talking to customers, doing what you’re talking about there and actually having those conversations and getting some qualitative and quantitative data. It’s not always possible. We work with some, range of clients from sort of small and medium.
and they don’t all have budgets to do things like that. in absence of that, I think it’s still really worthwhile doing an assumptive customer journey and trying to put yourself in the position of your customer and thinking, how does that customer currently find businesses like yours or the solution that you’re offering? How are they currently getting that fixed? And mapping that process out from when they realize they’ve got a problem.
to then investigating what the solution is and then making a decision on what the solution is, mapping out the way that they, we think they might be doing this now and the kind of questions they might be asking so that we can then, that basically becomes the strategy so that we can make sure we’re interrupting and being present with the right message at the right time for each stage of that customer journey.
Megan North (08:52)
Yeah, that’s amazing. And when you were doing your two months, just, it’s really stuck with me for some reason. I feel like I need to dive into it. Was there anything that someone said to you or something that really stuck with you that you still refer back to even now 25 years later?
Joanna Sharma (09:12)
from a customer perspective.
I I think it was just how, I think probably the biggest thing was how people online can be quite angry. And we would get certain, this is 25 years ago, it’s a long time ago. But I mean, even then we were still very comfortable in being quite firm and assertive on email.
And I remember some of the emails and people were a bit concerned about maybe they were new to the team. They were like, I don’t know if I can handle this one. I’m a bit nervous. And they might have a chat to me and I might say, don’t worry, I’ll call them. And I’d call up. And the firmest, harshest, most unpleasant email that came, someone was very, very angry and livid. You pick up the phone, there’s the sweetest person at the end of the phone. And you think, wow, if we’d gone back to each other.
and matched, and not that we ever would in the customer service, but I don’t know if it would have ever really been fully resolved, by picking up the phone, and this goes back to what you saying earlier about a human connection, by picking up the phone and actually having a conversation, this person was just lovely, a complete delight, and her experience of the brand was totally transformed because she got a phone call she felt listened to and felt like somebody cared enough to pick up the phone and actually ring her.
I think that’s probably a really strong lessons for life. know, in any role and throughout my career, if anyone’s, if I get a sort of spiky email.
Megan North (10:48)
that a sparky email. ⁓
Joanna Sharma (10:50)
That was a bit, don’t reply. Because I think I know I’ve seen it in teams that can spend a long time, take up so much energy crafting this perfect response to address the concerns. I’m like, don’t write the email, pick up the phone, have a conversation. And nine times out of 10, it’s so much quicker to resolve the issue by actually having a conversation and talk with somebody else.
Megan North (11:15)
Yeah, I love that. that’s and it’s all it’s interesting too, isn’t it? Because you called that person, but they’d already vented because they got it all out in their email. So yeah, all the the spikiness was in the email. They speak to them and they’ve kind of moved on, I suppose. And yeah.
Joanna Sharma (11:34)
I think people don’t have that same, there’s a disconnect through digital communications that if you’re talking to a human, to human, people all of their, she was ready to go to war with somebody on email, but as soon as it was a person at end of the phone and it becomes a human to human conversation, it was just totally different. We don’t know if it’s the same person.
Megan North (11:55)
Yeah.
Yeah. And when you said before that you’re doing your sandwich year, what’s the…
Joanna Sharma (12:05)
Yeah,
that might be a UK phrase. we do, if there’s a four year course, three of the years you’re studying and one year you go out and get a placement. Right. Right. Sandwich to, is the meat in the sandwich is the you put in the work for a year and then come back and do. So, I mean, I guess it’s great for things like business studies when so much fits theory, that you then go and work a year in industry and then come back and title together and go, remember that stuff we learned about teams and HR and, you know,
Megan North (12:14)
Alright, okay.
Joanna Sharma (12:35)
profit and loss and all that sort of stuff and put it all together into the final year of study, which just kind of embeds the practical element.
Megan North (12:41)
And when you were doing so your first two years and then you did your sandwich you did Did anything change for you? Like were you thinking you were going to do one thing and then you ended up doing something else? Or was it really firm that it was like no, this is what I’m doing
Joanna Sharma (12:57)
think before I did my placement, had no idea what I would do. I really wasn’t sure. I thought I probably wanted to do marketing, but I wasn’t too sure if that was definitely going to be it. But that placement year, because it was a tech company and it was digital, and I realized it was so much more fun than I’d ever expected. And I was like, I want to work in digital businesses. I love this.
Megan North (13:23)
Yeah. Yeah. So probably things came to you that you didn’t realise that you really loved like from a digital perspective as well.
Joanna Sharma (13:30)
Yeah, actually, it’s the creation. There really isn’t anything you can’t do. We’re selling CDs, then the CEO is an entrepreneur. He’ll be like, right, I think we’re going to do DVDs now. And he’s like, let’s go and partner with this bank. And we go and have a conversation with this bank. And we whip up a little microsite that had their branding. And I was like, you can kind of create anything that’s your imagination. there really is not. And I’ve always loved that about digital. There’s nothing.
There’s nothing that you can’t do. Everything’s possible. It’s obviously budgets and resources and probably the only things that kind of dictate what you can do. But really anything is possible. And I think that’s what’s so fun. You can create and be very creative and come up with new solutions and new different ways to do things.
Megan North (14:16)
Yeah, is that creative side something that you were aware of like when you were growing up?
Joanna Sharma (14:22)
No,
and I actually probably would never consider myself as particularly creative. I work with some excellent creatives in my team, because I’m not necessarily artistic, but it is a different kind of creativity that I probably be saying this now. I’m like, yeah, well, actually, maybe I am creative, but more creative in a strategic sense. you know, looking at opportunities, that’s probably where I am creative, less so.
design where I have an excellent designer and the reason I love working with my designer is because he’s so good at that and I don’t have to worry about that.
Megan North (14:55)
Yeah, and so I suppose that creative, you know, from you from a strategy point of view is that you’ve got a, you have a gift of being able to look outside the box and sort of think differently to how other people are coming to it, perhaps with tunnel vision.
Joanna Sharma (15:13)
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, just being able to connect the dots and then clear the path and go, OK, well, this is how it all works. Here’s where the opportunity is based on our customer journey. Yeah.
Megan North (15:24)
Yeah, and so it probably is like an innate ability that you can do for others that you go, look, I can really see that high level strategy and data. Are you like that with yourself personally? ⁓
Joanna Sharma (15:35)
Yes. ⁓
My husband always jokes that he’s a line item on my five-year plan. ⁓ He was just a line on a spreadsheet somewhere.
Megan North (15:42)
you
my gosh, that’s hilarious.
Joanna Sharma (15:50)
least planned. There’s been a plan for it all. Yeah. Right.
Megan North (15:54)
Wow, isn’t that interesting? Because sometimes, you know, sometimes we’re really good to do those things for others, but then often when we’re doing it for ourselves, we can get in our own way, right? Because we’re too emotional or we can’t really see the bigger picture, but wow, that’s amazing if you do.
Joanna Sharma (16:12)
I probably was like that more when I was younger. I think now I’ve got kids and a family. I’m probably like, yeah, it’s probably a little different now. But yeah, I’ve always liked to know where we’re going. Yeah, if I don’t have it. Yeah, I think I do still have it. I I still I love to have that plan because I just feel like it’s hard to make decisions if you don’t know where the end point is. So, you know, should we go on should we go on this holiday, for example?
Not sure what have we got coming up the next five years. OK, so in the next 12 months, can we afford that holiday? Maybe not based on what we really want to do, which is a big picture goal. So, yeah, I feel like for decision making, it’s good to have a plan.
Megan North (16:50)
Yeah great wow that’s amazing I love that that is hilarious your husband what your husband thinks. Good that you’re lucky that you’ve got a good sense of humor.
⁓ So because you get your living, your passion and your purpose, and you get so much joy out of what you do. And obviously you’ve created a team around your business. You have the right people doing the right things. How do you maintain your own mental health and well-being as you’re managing a team ⁓ and then managing yourself and your family? Have you got any tips or tricks that work for you that you could share with everyone?
Joanna Sharma (17:36)
Yeah, like I feel like it’s been a real journey for me. Like I’ve always been quite an anxious person. Even as a kid, I had a lot of anxiety. so, I should probably was quite good during my early part of my career. don’t know why, but when I had children, my anxiety shot up. And so looked at a few different other ways to manage that. I learned a lot about NLP and sort of matrix therapies to try and do some of that healing.
myself and I found that really, really effective. And I think acupuncture is the other one. I don’t know what it is about acupuncture, but when I have acupuncture, nothing makes me feel as relaxed. It gets me into this incredibly relaxed state. It’s like nothing else. ⁓ Like if I’m feeling a little like I’m just getting a little bit too overstimulated, if I go and have acupuncture, it just settles my whole system down. ⁓
infrequently or semi regularly, I would have my NLP coach and have some acupuncture. I feel like those two things. But on the day to day, you know, making time for exercise. We’ve got two dogs. So I love getting out and that’s my little nature fix. So walk the dogs and just be in the park. I love that. It’s a real highlight of my day. And just trying not to over come in. I feel like that’s taken me quite a long
many years now into my 40s to really start to, and my husband’s a good influence for that, he always thinks I’m trying to overdo too much. And so I’m trying to organise less on our weekends so that we have more quiet time, which is quite new for me.
Megan North (19:22)
Yeah, particularly if you have ⁓ experienced anxiety, particularly from a young age, you know, as a child, then that you’re used to being like that. And I think that brings, my gosh, I’ve got to be busy. I’ve got to be doing this. I’ve got to be doing this. Or I should, as my niece says, Arnie, Megan, are you shuddering all over yourself? No, should be, should, should, should, should.
Joanna Sharma (19:46)
you
Yeah, if I had a spare bit of time, I’m like, right, I should be doing the garden, I should be doing this and always never having and I feel like I’ve really only in the last four or five years started to go actually, I should be doing nothing but sitting down and reading a book for an hour in the garden on the weekend. And that’s, that’s, that’s enough. And that’s okay. Don’t feel guilty about that.
Megan North (20:10)
Yeah, yeah. It’s interesting, isn’t it? How we have that guilt and that how we’ve really got to work on that. Doing nothing is actually really good for us.
Joanna Sharma (20:21)
It’s been a long time to get to this point. As a sort turbo bunny that doesn’t stop, ⁓ learning to stop has been challenging but worth it.
Megan North (20:33)
that.
Yeah. And I love that you’ve shared with us, you know, how acupuncture really works for you, because I think that one of the things that I’m always loving to explore on this show is what works for people, because not everything is for everyone. You know, people say, my gosh, I feel really overwhelmed if I had to sit for an hour and meditate and then go to the gym and do this, this and this. it’s, and I’m always advising people find what you really enjoy. ⁓
sitting in the sun on a park bench reading a book for half an hour, do it. What really helps you then don’t think of like what everyone else is telling you on social media. You should be ⁓ find what works for you. So it’s really great that you found particularly acupuncture that is really cool.
Joanna Sharma (21:07)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I’ve tried meditation and I do feel like when I’ve done it has been good. I do find it hard to force myself to make be disciplined with it. And sometimes it can make me feel more anxious if I’m stopping doing nothing. It feels so jarring from my everyday that, you know, prefer the idea of being more active, like whether it’s yoga or walking and just quietly and contemplative. But
Megan North (21:36)
Just.
Joanna Sharma (21:50)
For some reason acupuncture as soon as those need I hate I’m needle phobic. So she hates I hate the process So I’m like, I’m like, oh my god, let’s just get it done as soon as they go and I’m like nothing else I’ve ever experienced. I just get such a relaxed day and I’m like, that’s why it’s worth it. Well
Megan North (22:08)
And that’s so interesting that you even had the courage to give it a go considering that you’ve got a phobia about needles.
Joanna Sharma (22:15)
Well, it all started years ago. ⁓ I had a horrendous toothache. And you know when you’re in so much pain that painkillers don’t work? And I remember, I can’t remember why I tried this, but I was working in the city and I went to sort of alternative Chinese medicine and they just did one thing and just one needle or something and the pain just went away and I thought, there’s something in this. And I always had a bit of an open mind to alternative therapies.
When I was 14, I had an ovarian cyst that had become quite large, and it was like pushing on the other organs. It was really painful. And I was booked in for a surgery to have the whole thing removed. doctors were like, it is what it is. You’re just going to have to get it taken out. And then my mom took me to a reflexologist at the time. I’ve never seen one since. I’m not sure why. And she said, get
somebody to rub your ankle, which was representing of your ovaries every night. And then I went for my pre scan and it got, yeah. So I was like, okay, well, there’s gotta be something in this. So it was always a bit open to trying something that might be different, seeing what works and yeah, I had that horrendous pain and it worked. I thought, I might just, it was when I was trying to overcome some of, you know, anxiety at a stress point.
Megan North (23:31)
Mm-hmm.
Joanna Sharma (23:42)
I was like, wow, this acupuncture, there’s something in that really calms me down.
Megan North (23:46)
Yeah. And you know, the reflexology, maybe all you needed it ever for was just that one moment in your life, you know? Yeah. And you just needed to have it then and then it was done for you. ⁓ Yeah. I think that that’s also another thing too, is that ⁓ with all the different modalities these days as well as trying it and if it works for you, great. And if it doesn’t.
Don’t make it a stress like go and try something else.
Joanna Sharma (24:16)
Yeah,
and I think at different life stages, perhaps there are different things. Like I meant I had a real yoga phase when I didn’t have children, I had more time on my hands. used to the hot yoga, the Vikram, loved that. I just don’t know how I managed to squeeze that in now. And so, you know, it’s what works for you at the moment. And at the moment, I feel like it’s less about stress, but more about evolving and, you know, becoming the better version of myself and, you know, working through some of the
with NLP coach and yeah my chiropractor I’m quite sure what what he is but he does some sort of neuro something and yeah he’s incredible too so ⁓
Megan North (24:58)
⁓
Wow, good.
Joanna Sharma (25:00)
Yes, I feel like there’s always a bit to unravel, but the more unraveling you do, the more loose threads you find. so it’s almost a, yeah, takes some time.
Megan North (25:12)
Yeah, and it’s a constant thing, isn’t it? It’s like, yeah. And I also think too for you, because you lead a team, I think it’s really important that you’re looking after yourself holistically as well, because you’re the leader, they look up to you. And so it’s good leaders walk the talk.
Joanna Sharma (25:31)
Yeah, my mum, in fact, my whole family, we’re all built as hard workers. And I feel like that is in our blood and that we will push ourselves to the point where it is unhealthy. And I know that that’s quite a strong family trait. And I’ve looked at my mum and my older sister and they have worked themselves so hard that they brought on ill health. And so I’ve kind of gone, well, if
I’ve got to take a lesson here. And I’ve really very consciously tried to put more boundaries in place so that I don’t push myself quite so hard and bring about more balance in my life. there was an opportunity that came up a few weeks ago that was going to be, it was a significant opportunity. It was going to mean quite a significant life adjustment to manage it. And ⁓ I thought,
thought long and hard about it. There was so much that sounded great about it. And I think 10 years ago, I’d have absolutely jumped and gone, no, it doesn’t matter what the impact is. I will make this work because I’m so driven by slightly different things. Whereas now it’s like, what kind of lifestyle do I want? What’s that whole makeup? What’s really important for me? What do I want as opposed to what’s going to make the most money or support family? And I was like, well, actually, I think
me, that would be healthy. ⁓ So made what was a slightly to me surprising decision to decline the opportunity, because normally I would not have done that. But I feel like that’s just as I’ve got older and realized that it is about balance and your health and your family play a really important role in your, in your career and your life. And you can be a better version of yourself for your clients and professionally.
by having that balance. ⁓
Megan North (27:26)
Absolutely. And I don’t know whether you know this from a healing perspective, but the work that we do, and I’m talking feminine because we’re both women, but the work that we do ⁓ actually has a healing effect for seven generations previous and seven generations ahead. So the work that you’re doing is actually healing your mom, your grandmother, your great-grandmother, all of that ancestry, but it’s also then helping the women.
that come like if you’ve got daughters or if you’ve got kids and that sort of thing, it’s actually you’re doing the healing for them forward as well. Excellent. It’s really great. Because my mum has passed and so and I hear ⁓ both my parents have passed away, but I hear my mum all the time and she often celebrates me for doing the work that she couldn’t do while she was young.
Joanna Sharma (28:21)
And so I…
Megan North (28:22)
The
more work I do on myself, the more I love that because I know that I’m just doing so much for her and the previous generations. But then I don’t have children, but I’ve got lots of nieces and great nieces and I’ve got a sister and all of that sort of thing. So it’s actually for me, it even becomes more meaningful because I’m not just doing it for me. I’m actually doing it for past and present and future generations as well. So yeah, it’s beautiful, isn’t it?
Joanna Sharma (28:43)
You
Love that.
Megan North (28:51)
So one of my usual questions about now is, ⁓ has your path to pursuing your passion and purpose evolved over time? But given that you’ve mentioned in your bio that you’re now ready to make a little bit of a sidestep and something different, can ⁓ you describe what happened like when you realised that you wanted to make a bit of a change in the career direction?
Joanna Sharma (29:16)
Yeah, so I’ve always worked client side. So from those early days, I was the marketing assistant, marketing manager, head of marketing, head of digital. And that’s sort of always been my career path from early on in my career. And then 10 and a half years ago, I went out on my own and started my agency, which was a very steep learning curve because I didn’t actually have any agency experience. I’d worked
as a marketer, but not as a agency owner or even worked in an agency. So I relied on ⁓ peers and colleagues and mentors and partners to support that growth. that first year or two, you know, understanding pricing and scopes of work, like I needed to be more refined with and so and that’s been working really well for the last 10 years. But I guess when I’ve been looking back at
⁓ What do I really love? What’s my positioning and what’s area of focus? I feel like my skillset hasn’t changed. My skills have evolved, but my focus hasn’t necessarily changed a huge amount since when I was clients. And I still take that approach with clients where I put myself deeply into their business, understanding the whole inner workings and the customer journey to formulate a strategy.
and then connect the dots across all the different areas of marketing. And as a strategist, you in an agency, you kind of can be involved with a part of it where I’m looking at making a bit more of a transition to more of a like a CMO or virtual head of marketing role where I’m still taking that holistic view of the business. And we’re looking at all of the different elements that need to be
considered and then working with my team to deliver it. But just positioning it in a slightly different way that we’re more, we’re not just sort of an outsourced function of Facebook ads and this bit here. It’s actually overseeing the marketing strategy and overseeing the delivery of that on behalf of the client. So we work mainly with B2B businesses. So perhaps those businesses that are growing and they’re in their, ⁓ a growth stage, but they don’t necessarily want to hire an entire marketing team. They’re not quite ready for that.
But hiring a part-time version of me, you kind of get a developer, a strategist, a graphic designer, a producer, an ad specialist. You kind of get the functions and the skills of an entire marketing team with me heading it up as your outsource marketing team that’s coordinating it on behalf of businesses. So you’re getting multiple skills for,
a value that they would not necessarily be able to afford if they were to hire six or seven headcount or even just me full time. They’re able to get all of those skills together and it’s more of that kind of virtual marketing team.
Megan North (32:30)
Hmm. And so was there something that triggered this this little change in your direction? it is it evolution? Is it just you changing as a person?
Joanna Sharma (32:42)
probably just reflecting on how I add the most value. And I think sometimes when I’m talking to people, trying to explain exactly what it is that I do, especially with people that aren’t necessarily marketers or it’s not their background, sometimes they
can be a bit confusing. And it’s like, which bit do you? Are you the developer? Are you the ad specialist? Or which one are you? And I feel like this kind of is more of a succinct. And I think there’s definitely a shift in the market to be moving towards this as well. So there’s the term fractional is being used a lot more, which is more kind of outsourced solution where you don’t necessarily have a full-time headcount. But you’ve got somebody providing those services for a number of hours each month.
And I feel like that’s a bit of a growing ⁓ acceptance in the marketplace that this is an alternative, viable alternative to actually hiring headcount, especially in a discipline like marketing, which is so multifaceted like this, you your SEO person is not going to be your graphic designer, is not going to be your social media person. Like there’s so many different skills. And if you could have access to all of those skills by one person at a reduced rate, then it’d kind of get a whole team.
That’s a good proposition.
Megan North (34:07)
And so how does that go when you are usually very planned and you’re quite firm on what the future looks like and what are the line items in your Excel spreadsheet? So is this something that then you get an idea and it sort of floats around in your mind and you’ve slowly got to create it or is it like a quick switch? How does it work for you that way? ⁓
Joanna Sharma (34:37)
switch. It’s just a change in how my language and my presentation around my website and social posts and how I’m communicating with people. just when we’re doing our own marketing and our outreach, repositioning that, the messaging there to be clearer around that and who we’re going for, who we’re wanting to talk to, what kind of size organizations and why it’s a really good fit for them, which I think it works.
It’s a really nice marriage between those kind of growth businesses that are still in their growth phase to be able to tap into that.
Megan North (35:19)
And I suppose too, you’ve kind of got the inside scoop, right? Because you can see what’s happening from a marketing point of view, what, and because you love to connect with the people and then listen and sit back and sort of review what is being needed, then you are able to make that change quite quickly because you can see this is where the market is going or this is what’s needed.
Joanna Sharma (35:41)
Yes, I think it’s a good solution for the right kind of business. And I feel like there’s more awareness and understanding that this is a solution that is available now. And hiring people costs a lot of money these days in Australia. So I feel like it’s strong alternative.
Megan North (36:04)
Fantastic. And so do you think there’s going to be any challenges or personal growth that you’re going to anticipate through this next phase of this change? ⁓
Joanna Sharma (36:16)
for this change, less so because I don’t feel like it’s a huge jump from what I was doing. It’s more of a positioning and a messaging change. And I think in some ways it’s simpler. know, we’re a virtual marketing team that you can just plug and play. So I feel like in that sense, it still works quite well. Yeah, I think the
And I think that as the market is sort of making a bit of a shift in this direction, we’re just sort of going to be riding wave there. So I think.
Megan North (36:48)
should be good. Yeah, yeah. And what type of, ⁓ what type of leader are you in the sense of? mean, obviously you walk the talk, but are you open with your team? Are you one to really talk things through with them? Or do you like to get things clearer in your head first before you talk to the team?
Joanna Sharma (37:10)
we are quite collaborative. And I mean, I probably am the one that’s going, we need to do this, we need to do that. ⁓ And then we would have a chat and talk about what that one might look like and how that might be delivered. But yeah, I feel like it is quite collaborative, you know, there’s, especially because we’ve got a bit of a broad team with different expertise, like each team member brings their own wealth of experience, and kind of
like grown up marketers, like everyone’s been doing it a while and knows their discipline really well, which is why it’s a strong team that can be relied on for their various expertise. ⁓ And so yeah, there’s a lot of, ⁓ you know, skill and experience that I do lean on from within the team as well around floating this idea, what do you think, how do think it will go and yeah.
Megan North (38:03)
Hmm, no, it’s good. I love that. I love that. And so from a, talked about mental health and wellbeing and how you look after your own mental health and wellbeing. Is that something then that with the people that you work with, you’re always checking in and making sure that they’re doing things for themselves as well.
Joanna Sharma (38:21)
Yeah, absolutely. Making sure that one of my team members is in the Philippines in Cebu. And there was a big earthquake a couple of weeks ago. And their family was impacted. And she knows of people who lost their lives. And so it was quite serious. So looking at how to support her and any of her family and what she needed. And obviously, going by the time she needed to.
returned to her, I think where the centre was was her ancestral home. So, we’re going to go back to her home and just connect with their family and yeah, navigate that.
Megan North (39:02)
Yeah, wow. that’s really sad. I’m sorry. That’s really tough. It’s difficult for us to understand, isn’t it, to or to be able to relate to because we don’t really have those many that sort of
Joanna Sharma (39:17)
No, but interestingly, I was asking her about that and she was saying they actually haven’t, I mean, I know other places around them have, but it’s in particular, hadn’t been hit with anything like that in some of the times. It’s not something they’re prepared for or had any anticipation for. And there’s been a number of aftershocks in the weeks since. So yeah, I think everyone’s quite stressed and anxious to know what’s, there’s a lot of instability there at the moment with the
literally with the ground. it’s not something they’re used to in any way. I think it came as a real shock.
Megan North (39:52)
That was me. Gosh. So when you’ve got a lot going on and in particular, you you were talking about this potential opportunity that you really had to take a lot of time to think more often and sort of think through. do you, we talked about mental health before, but do you have any practices or rituals that you bring into your day that help you stay grounded so that if you feel like your brain is getting
Joanna Sharma (39:55)
Thank
Megan North (40:21)
really high level and strategic that sometimes you need to just bring yourself back to earth? Is there anything that you do particularly to sort of feel like you’re back in the room or that your feet are on the floor?
Joanna Sharma (40:33)
I mean, I think with that one, and you you sort of touched on it earlier maybe when you’re talking about when it’s sometimes it’s hard to make your own. I feel like when it’s our own things, it is a bit harder. And I feel like sometimes it’s not necessarily planning. I find it easy to do the planning. But the decision making in the moment sometimes can be challenging. And this one particularly where it was going to be quite a shift in direction. ⁓ And it would have been a project that would have been all consuming, you know, quite probably almost. Yeah.
lots of days and yeah it would have been a lot and I feel like that one because it 10 years ago I would have jumped at it and I was like really trying to think about what’s right for me, what’s right for my family so I was really going around in circles a bit with that one so I felt like
talking to people was the best way I navigated through that, like chatting to friends, chatting to colleagues, checking to mentors and trying to work out this is what this opportunity looks like. What do you think? You know, yes, it’s excellent for the bottom line, but is it right for me? And I think just weighing up what was really important. I love my career, but I’d also love what flexibility it gives me and for my family and, you know, my
parent of two neurodiverse kids, one more so than the other. And so it is quite hard sometimes. And so ⁓ I love the fact that if things are ever challenging or, you know, I get a phone call from the school because that happens a lot that I can be there at the drop of a hat.
Megan North (42:04)
volatile
Yeah, and I think that that’s one of the biggest things that makes a lot of people
Joanna Sharma (42:27)
⁓
Megan North (42:28)
finally make that decision of stepping into doing their own thing and following their passion and purpose because you can manage your own diary, holidays when you want to, all of those sort of things that I think that it gives us that huge amount of flexibility, doesn’t it?
Joanna Sharma (42:36)
Yeah.
I
think I probably hadn’t quite sat down and thought about and appreciated quite how much and then when I when there was opportunity was going to mean things changing I was like actually this is kind of critical for me at this stage in my life so yeah.
Megan North (43:04)
Thank
you for sharing that. And so if you, if you, you’ve obviously got a wonderful ⁓ inner circle, which I think is really important also as business owners, I think that to have people who we can really trust, but people that are going to challenge us and that sort of thing I think is really important. But if you had someone come to you and say, I’m going go out on my own, this is a really big decision. I don’t know what to do. What,
advice would you give them? Like what’s one thing that you think you could advise them that would really help them to make that decision?
Joanna Sharma (43:42)
think it would be, don’t do it lightly. I think when I first went out on my own, I just thought I was going ⁓ to be my own boss. I’m going to have all this freedom and control. actually, because especially when you’re in that startup phase, you want to do an excellent job. I always want to do an excellent job. But you want to try and please and deliver for clients.
because it’s your business and they’re your clients and you want to serve that audience, you actually probably have less time. And if somebody wants something completely unrealistic, you’re like, yes, I’ll do it. ⁓ Because it was my business. And so I actually probably found quite the opposite was true. I still need sometimes. If somebody needs something, then it doesn’t matter if I’m.
doing something else, I need to make that happen. We’ve got a bit of an infrastructure in place now, which just has supported that. And I guess that’s probably something that was quite key early on when I started my business. The same year I had my first child. So I had two babies at once. I know what I’ll do when I’m on leave.
Megan North (44:58)
Wow.
Yes, because I have all the time in the world.
Joanna Sharma (45:06)
And then I had my second daughter 14 months later, was, yeah, so those first few years were kind of carnage because either business was growing, but I always had to ⁓ obviously had these two babies. you know, getting ⁓ help was probably a key part of that. So I suppose my point is really just being aware that ⁓ you don’t necessarily have as much freedom as you think.
because you need to be meeting clients’ needs and expectations and delivering. But also being open to help. I’ve got this debt where I’ll do it all on my own. And I think that it’s just sometimes just too much. So creating systems and support networks, whether it’s through work. So I set up my business so that I had
team that was able in fact to do something that they were able to pick things up and move along. It wasn’t totally dependent on me and that saw me quite well through you know the next 10 years because that infrastructure was in place. It was not solely dependent on me and I think that was an important decision early on and also getting you know accepting other help. know we had for that first year we had a lady that would come in in the afternoon and
prepare the dinner and take my toddler to an outing or the newborn was asleep and I could do some work and I don’t know if we would have eaten if she hadn’t been there. So it was just good, it was good. I think just accepting help when it’s offered and asking for help when you need it.
Megan North (46:48)
Yeah, I love that. That’s fantastic. And I think the other thing is, that what I also how I would answer that too is don’t expect that everything is like it’s not going to be an incredible business and you’re going to be making millions within the first couple of weeks because it’s unrealistic. You’ve got to put, you know, you’ve got to be patient, put the time in as well. Yeah, but that, yeah, I love that. That’s really good. Thank you for that.
Joanna Sharma (47:10)
Yeah.
Megan North (47:16)
So can you believe that we’ve actually only got a couple of minutes left? So I’m going to ask you the same question that I ask all of my guests before we finish our conversation. So Jo, what is one lesson or truth that you’ve learned on your journey that you wish you had known earlier?
Joanna Sharma (47:39)
I think for me, it’s probably been a bit of a reflection for what we’ve already talked about. But early on, for me, the success was ⁓ landing the big clients, the big transformational projects, the results for clients, and the delivery. And that still is ⁓ a really important factor. But I think as I’ve got older and
been doing this a while, I feel like there’s a real balance needed around your own mental health and well-being and making sure that those things aren’t at odds with each other. you know, I’m lucky that some of my clients are, all of my clients are amazing, but, you know, the people that I work with on a regular basis actually really like them as humans. And I feel like that really helps because, you know, I want to help, you know, and serve and make
make life better. feel like, you know, going, it’s not necessarily the focus isn’t like a business. It’s more like I’ve learned that I really enjoy helping and making an impact and making a difference. And that’s actually doesn’t so much feel like work then. It’s more like actually tapping into your skills or your values and what’s meaning something to you. That means you can actually
Megan North (48:55)
Yeah.
Joanna Sharma (49:05)
do what you do for work, but it’s not work and it’s not business, it’s not transactional, it’s actually doing something that you love and you can really enjoy that and get a lot out of it.
Megan North (49:14)
Yeah, I love that. I think that’s really beautiful. And it just ties in beautifully to everything that we’ve spoken about today. Thank you. It’s really lovely. Yeah. So thank you so much for this incredible conversation. I knew it would be amazing. I’m so grateful for everything that you’ve shared today. And I have no doubt that there’ll be a lot of people inspired by what we’ve spoken about today. So thank you.
Joanna Sharma (49:38)
Welcome. Thanks for having me.
