Empowering High Performing Women with Marysol James | Ep. 6
Overview
My guest on this week’s episode of The True North Show is Marysol James, an incredible and inspiring woman who is using the wisdom and knowledge she learned through her own experience of living in a narcissistic relationship and helping high performing women transform their lives back into one that is filled with empowerment and self-worth. Marysol’s journey is one that she wishes she hadn’t experienced but realises that by going through it, it has pivoted her into a life filled with passion and purpose and absolutely living her true north.
Bio:
Marysol James is a bestselling romance author turned global speaker and coach, known for helping high-achieving women heal from narcissistic abuse and step boldly into the life they truly deserve.
With an MA in International Business, a successful career spanning continents, and 32 bestselling novels, she knows what it means to shine… and what it feels like to be dimmed.
For six years, she was in a narcissistic and abusive relationship that slowly dismantled her confidence, clarity, and identity. Leaving wasn’t just an escape – it was a reckoning. A return to self.
Now, she channels that hard-earned wisdom into speaking and coaching that’s as empowering as it is healing. She’s not just an expert – she’s a survivor with a message women need to hear: “you are not alone, and you are not broken”.
Marysol brings compassion, intelligence and fire to the stage, inviting conversations that are brave, honest and transformative. If you’re looking for a speaker or coach who understands the strength behind the silence, she’s the voice you’ve been waiting for.
Social Media:
- Website: https://marysoljamescoaching.com
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marysol.james.romanceauthor
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marysoljames/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marysol-james-34b85b313/
Transcript:
Megan North (00:39)
Hello and welcome to The True North Show, a show where we dive into the pivotal moments that ignite our guests’ passion, uncover stories behind their purpose, and reveal the real life strategies they use to stay balanced and prioritise mental wellbeing. Get ready for inspiring conversations that light the way to living with intention, resilience, while following your true North. I’m your host, Megan North, and I would like to thank our sponsors of the show.
Quantum Awakening, Beth Lewis, Anne C. Clarke, and our lovely guest who paid to be featured on this episode. Today, I am joined by Marisol James, a best-selling romance author turned global speaker and coach known for helping high achieving women heal from narcissistic abuse and step boldly into the life they truly deserve. With an MA in International Business,
successful career spending continents and 32 best-selling novels, she knows what it means to shine and what it feels like to be dimmed. For six years she was in a narcissistic and abusive relationship that slowly dismantled her confidence, clarity and identity. Leaving wasn’t just an escape, it was a reckoning, a return to self.
Now she channels that hard earned wisdom into speaking and coaching that’s empowering as it is healing. She’s not just an expert, she’s a survivor with a message women need to hear. You are not alone and you are not broken. Marisol brings compassion, intelligence and fire to the stage, inviting conversations that are brave, honest and transformative.
If you’re for a speaker or coach who understands the strength behind the silence, she’s the voice you’ve been waiting for. Welcome to the show Marisol. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Marysol James (02:46)
Thank you. And I love that introduction. I don’t mean my bio. I mean your introduction. It’s beautiful. It’s very empowering, isn’t it?
Megan North (02:55)
And I think it’s really interesting, and I say this to a lot of my guests, that we go on such a big journey ourselves, and then when we hear and reflect on where we’ve been and what we offer and how we help people by someone else talking about you, I think it’s really empowering.
Marysol James (03:15)
No, agree.
Megan North (03:17)
the different sort of perspective. You’ve got to sit there and think about yourself and what you’ve done and what you bring. And actually, I think it gives you a different sense of achievement.
Marysol James (03:29)
I think when we speak of ourselves in the third person or we’re being spoken about in the third person in front of us, you know, like we’re hearing about ourselves while we’re sitting there, it is a very different experience than using the I, which always feels a little bit self-congratulatory or you’re tooting your own horn. And I think even as women, even high achieving women who have worked hard for what we get, I think there’s still a part of us that thinks, wow,
Am I ⁓
Megan North (04:02)
is,
isn’t it? And I think that we’re always worried about, you know, oh, is my ego stepping too much in the room? Is that my ego speaking? Or is it okay to toot my own trumpet?
Marysol James (04:16)
Yeah, mean, think, I mean, men will, you know, have have like an epic read about them before they get up and speak. And they just said they’re totally fine with it. But I mean, as a woman, I always sort of go, Oh, God, is there more? Stop talking about me like that. I can’t deal with it. But I think we have to start accepting it. If we’ve accomplished things, I think we should stand by them. I really do.
Megan North (04:41)
Absolutely. It’s interesting that you said that too about that long list because ⁓ one of my previous ⁓ careers was I was 20 years or 20 plus years in the human resources space. And I used to, ⁓ when I was doing internal promotions with people and recruiting people, I always was fascinated with the fact that I would go to a woman and say, look, I really think this role would be incredible for you. It’s a stretch, but I think it’s great.
And they would look at the job description and they’d say, oh, I can only do 24 of those 25 things. I’m not sure if I’m qualified. I’d have this conversation with a male and they would say, yep, I can do five of them. Let’s just see how we go. And I used to just think that was fascinating in the sense of from the male perspective and the female perspective.
Marysol James (05:34)
Yeah, think that women need to, I mean, there are so many accomplished women, and I’m not just talking education or profession, but just accomplished as people, they’ve worked on themselves so hard to just be better people, like who they are, their absolute best. And then the second is pointed out to them, they get all, well, you know, I could do better. And we always, we always see potential.
in things, even ourselves. And that’s amazing because it keeps us moving forward. But there is something called the reverse gap that we don’t do near. ⁓ have you not heard of it? No. reverse gap is when we look back on where we were even six months ago, a year ago, three years ago, and we recognize how far we have moved forward in our goals and ourselves. And there’s something where we tend to look forward and say, I want this, I’m so far from this.
We very rarely do the reverse gap and say, look where I was and where I am. I should, three years ago, I really wanted to be where I am and I’ve made it happen. I should take some pride in that.
Megan North (06:42)
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think being a fellow coach, ⁓ it’s interesting that you called it the reverse gap because it’s one of the things that I use as a technique with my clients is that from month to month, I’m always making sure that we’re in any moment that I hear, something that they’ve said and I’ve realised that that’s a reflection for them that I love to point it out because I think particularly when we’re moving forward, as you said,
we’re often looking at what’s next, but forgetting to reflect. And so I suspect it’s probably something that you do with your clients too, is to go, this is what you were saying last month, but this month you’re not saying that. Can you hear the sound and the change in what you’re saying?
Marysol James (07:29)
One of my favorite things to say to my clients is congratulations. Thank you, not well done, not good for you. I love to say congratulations because this is a celebration. Look at where you are. know, three months ago, your narcissistic ex, because I work with high achieving women who have left abusive relationships with narcissists. Three months ago, you were still…
⁓ taking his phone calls. Three months ago, you were still checking his Facebook. Three months ago, he sent you a text and you crumbled. And here we are today. You have completely gone no contact. You’re not feeling that pull back to him to wonder what he’s doing. This is a congratulations. This is a big deal. You have made huge progress and healing is never linear. So there’s the sense that I’m having a bad day and I’m really missing him.
That’s okay, you know, that’s okay. It’s like a grieving process where you lose someone and you can be moving forward in your life and then just one day it just crashes on you how much you miss them. That’s all healing. And like I said, it’s not linear. So you can have days where you actually miss your abuser because it was familiar. It was your life for so long and worse.
When the narcissist showed up, he showed up as your dream man. That’s the MO. They show up and they watch you and they figure out what you need and they make you fall in love with them. That’s extremely important because if you’re not in love with them, they can’t unmask and start the devaluation and control. So you miss the person from the beginning. He was your dream man. The problem is he was a fantasy.
So it’s okay to miss your abuser. And that’s something that ⁓ women in recovery have a very hard time accepting. Like I miss him. Why? Because he presented himself as your perfect man. He was the perfect man. He promised you things. He was in your life for so long. You did contort yourself to fit into what he wanted you to be. That was your familiarity, your
body adjusted to that reality. Your mind was rewired to that reality and now it’s gone. You don’t miss him. You miss the familiarity of it. It became home. And it’s okay to miss home, even if home wasn’t a healthy, fantastic place. The trick is recognizing that and naming it and saying, I’m missing him, but I’m missing him yet. I’m missing him and
I won’t go back. Wow. That’s the trick. That’s the hard thing to reach. And once you do, it’s a big congratulations. Yeah. love that. I’m going to
Megan North (10:34)
start
using that congratulations. I think it’s really beautiful. It’s really, really beautiful. It just has that beautiful energy to it too. thank you.
Marysol James (10:43)
They need to hear congratulations. They need to hear, are, this is something to celebrate in yourself, for yourself. Put on the party hats.
Megan North (10:58)
I the confetti, yes, definitely.
So we’ve just touched on a little bit of that work that you do. So can you take us back? So what was the defining moment that led you to pursue your true passion and purpose, this work that you do with women?
Marysol James (11:21)
It’s interesting because for a long time, I thought my passion and purpose was international business. And it was. I got my master’s degree back in Canada and I immediately started traveling and working in Eastern Europe and then Asia. And I mean, I’m 53 years old now and I haven’t lived in Canada for more than half of my life at this point. have
forged a truly international career. And I loved it because I loved the travel, I loved the culture, I loved learning new languages. And then I fell into romance writing, a bit of a long story, but I ended up being a full-time romance writer. And I thought that was my passion because I love writing. And romance wouldn’t have been my first choice, but it’s where I ended up. And then I loved that. And then I got into this relationship
with this man here in England. And my marriage had ended and I ended up moving to England with my older son to be with this man. And I thought that he totally supported my writing. I thought he totally supported my independence. I was earning well over 150,000 US dollars in royalties as a self-published romance writer. So that’s not, that’s like, that’s unbelievable.
And I thought he was proud of all of that. I thought he loved that. But this is the thing with narcissists is they start chipping away at all this stuff that in the beginning they loved, now it threatens them. So I started working for his company for free. And as soon as that happened, my writing decreased, decreased, decreased. And then when I tried to go back to it, there was a lot of guilt. There was a lot of…
Oh, you’re saying you don’t care about my business. Oh, you know, so it stopped. It just completely stopped. And I missed it desperately. So when I left him two years ago, because I walked out the door, I took my kid. He was left with the business that had been built up on about five years of my free labor, work, energy, talent, attention. He’s walked off with it. And I was left with…
Nothing, because my writing had just gone off a cliff. I had lost my readers. There were no more royalties. So I was a wreck, because even though you are the one to leave the narcissist, it’s that thing in your head where you wonder, did I leave too soon? Did I get it wrong? Was it my fault? Am I the narcissist? So I found a trauma-informed therapist specializing in narcissism.
which is very rare. It has to be said, most therapists don’t understand narcissistic abuse. And I began working with her. And this is what slowly led me towards this new path because I started writing romance again and I’m still, writing my 33rd book right now. ⁓ I’ve published two books since leaving him. I’m writing my third now. So that is still very much a passion.
which is healthy love, artistic expression. But in my own healing, it occurred to me that high achieving women are, first of all, disproportionately targeted by narcissists because they’re high achieving. There’s a lot of reasons for that. And I talk about it with my women, but the biggest reason is the reflected glory on the narcissist. They look great to have this kind of woman.
And nurses are big into that. ⁓ It’s interesting then that they start chipping away at it because then what happens is then they need to control all that glory. If I can control this kind of woman, I am really a big man. So once I started realizing just how complicated it all was and how little support there really is for high achieving women, because there’s this misconception that
If you’re smart enough to run a business, you’re clearly smart enough to avoid a narcissist, putting the onus back on the woman, which is completely unfair. So it’s led me to this. I mean, I don’t have much to thank him for, but I can thank him for this. He has basically forced me to look at the abuse of high achieving women. Why, how, how things that made us successful in life
keep us stuck in narcissistic relationships. They work against us with a narcissist. And this is why it’s so messy. And this is how I’ve ended up on this path that is now my biggest passion. I think between my history of international business and romance writing and being in that relationship for six years, it has culminated into this thing.
where I am so uniquely poised to reach women high achieving on that level with my business history, being able to express myself in writing and being able to look at, get the perspective on what I went through and I can break it down for women who have been through it. So when they say to me,
You’re not going to believe what I tell you that he did this. I’m going to say, I promise you, I will believe you because there are things he said and did to me that I still on some level, I know it happened, but I can’t believe it happened. So it’s ⁓ so it’s been a bit of it’s been a bit of a journey. But I do feel like like in the introduction of your show, it says you’re exactly where you’re meant to be. This is exactly where I meant to be now. Working with women like me, who I was four years ago.
That is absolutely where I’m meant to be right now.
Megan North (17:39)
And what part does forgiveness play in all of this? From forgiveness of self and then forgiveness of others.
Marysol James (17:48)
It’s an interesting question because there is, I think as women, we are quite often pressured to forgive the other person. And that’s something that a lot of the women that I work with say, I don’t want to forgive him. I can’t forgive him. And I say, you don’t have to, because that’s almost gaslighting to say to a woman, you have to forgive your abuser. And I’m not a big…
believer in that. A lot of women that I work with say, I want to forgive him. I just can’t yet. And I say, that’s okay, because you have to forgive yourself first. You can’t forgive them until you work on yourself. So that’s what I focus on. And when I talk about what I’ve forgiven myself for, ⁓ it’s, and taking ownership and accountability for my part in it, is that what I have discovered since leaving him,
is I have something, we all have something that I have called a wounded strength. And a wounded strength is something that we carry in us. It’s a wound. And it can come from childhood, but it doesn’t have to. And it can come from abusive parents, but it doesn’t have to. And it can come from a narcissistic relationship in your childhood, but it doesn’t have to. can be, it’s something that
has left a wound in us. And what we find with high achieving women, at least the ones I work with, is this wound is the very thing that has driven us forward, that has made us resilient, that has made us high achieving, that has made us able to just put our head down and do the thing. And we stick through and we see it through. And this works great when you’re talking about work, let’s say.
or you’re talking about healthy relationships, or you’re talking about being a good mother. But when you’re working with a very toxic, unhealthy partner, it keeps you stuck in it because all you do is they say something to you and you ⁓ take it on board. You think, well, this person loves me and they’re giving me this feedback. So I will, I will just think about that.
And this is where it starts to, the control begins. But the problem with this is, ⁓ this is something that you have to own. You have to recognize your wounded strength. You have to see how it’s served you in your life. But then you also have to realize how it is what the narcissist targeted. It’s what they eroded on. It’s what they found in you. And it’s what they… ⁓
promised to alleviate or heal or support you in. So just because I’m being very general here, in my case, my wounded strength is when I was nine years old, I was diagnosed with cancer and I lived in the hospital for three years. So I was like living. I wasn’t going back and forth. I was living in the hospital. I was going to school in the hospital. So I didn’t have family around me most of the time.
no friends, no school, no social interaction. And that’s a pretty formative three years between nine and 12. So what did I learn during that three years? Well, to meet my own emotional needs, to not look to others for comfort or support, ⁓ to handle myself, to just get through things myself. The doctors were great and the nurses, but they weren’t my parents.
I just learned, and I also learned that sometimes life isn’t fair. Like I was on a ward where children died every week. So you kind of, what you learn during that time is to be very, very independent and strong, and also to meet your own needs and regulate yourself. So this is when I was nine to 12. So by the time he showed up, I had been for almost 40 years doing everything myself, everything.
because I didn’t know any other way to be. And this has driven me forward and made me very successful and strong and gritty. But when he showed up and he literally said to me, you don’t have to do everything yourself. I’m here now. We’re an us. And honestly, Megan, for the first time, it felt like I could just put it all down and hand it to someone else for a little while. And I could trust him.
to take care of me, he tapped into this like aching need I didn’t even know I had, but he saw it in me. So I thought this, I thought this was my soulmate. I thought this was the man who I could trust to carry me after being on my own for since the age of nine. ⁓ But it’s what made me vulnerable to him.
when he began to withdraw it, when the devaluation process started and he turned cold and critical and began to chip, I panicked because here was this, I mean, how was I supposed to go back to doing everything myself again? ⁓ this is what, and this is a very roundabout answer to your question, but every woman that I work with, we have to identify her wounded strength because that is what the narcissist tapped into.
and you have to forgive yourself for letting it be exploited, but the problem is you didn’t know it was. The thing is now you do. So you have to forgive yourself for that part of it, and then you have to own it. And you also have to say, my wounded strength, really it’s a strength, but it’s also a wound. So the self forgiveness and recognition comes first.
Then if you want to forgive him for targeting it, exploiting it, all of that, that’s up to you. I don’t demand that because those women have had enough manipulation by him to last a lifetime. If they do not want to forgive that manipulation, don’t, it’s not a demand that I make. It’s something that I say you have to do it to heal properly. ⁓ And a lot of them simply don’t want to.
They just, they, why should I forgive somebody who abused me for 10 years? Well, that’s a good question, actually.
Megan North (24:30)
That’s their journey as well, isn’t it? And I love that. I I think that if you were in a position where you’re helping these women, but then telling them what they needed to do and they need to do this and that, then you’re almost being as demanding as what they’ve just come out of. And that’s not the place that you want to be in and that’s not how you help. So I think it’s always when we’re working with clients, it’s being where they are ⁓ on their journey as well. And you’re right. Forgiveness is…
I mean, you and I had a conversation about this in the sense of, think forgiveness of yourself is the biggest gift you can give yourself. But then if you can step it into forgiving the other person, it’s an even bigger gift, but it’s not necessary. So I think that if you do eventually get to that place, then fantastic. But if you don’t, it doesn’t need to be a stress.
Marysol James (25:24)
Well, the other thing about being in a narcissistic relationship, ultimately what it’s about is about him, because I work with women who have been with men, him having power and control and controlling how you feel, controlling how you speak, controlling where you go, controlling your money, controlling your mind. The last thing I’m going to do is take away any of her control and say, now, this is what you must. There is no must.
There’s a lot of enlightenment and speaking and realization. And there’s a lot of working on self-love and self-trust. Because after the narcissist, you don’t trust yourself at all because your judgment is gone. You don’t know who you are. You wonder how on earth this happened. Like we’re talking about the reverse gap. Well, you look back on who you were before him and you think, where did she go? Like they’ve got enough to deal with. The last thing I’m going to say to them is, and now you must find it in your heart.
to understand him. Well, I do make a point of saying how the narcissist works, really the mind and so on, why they behave the way they do. If that helps you get clarity on their behavior, that’s the best I ask for. I do not demand that my clients have to forgive their abuser. I don’t find that particularly ⁓ helpful.
That not not what I’m working with them at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Megan North (26:59)
I just, I knew that this conversation would be really insightful. It’s just given me so many different things to think about because I’ve never been in a narcissistic relationship before. So it’s really interesting for me to hear about this. So, you know, just want to thank you just for sharing this and for doing the work that you do with women. I’m sorry that you’ve been through it yourself, but often that’s where we’re led to our passion and purpose and our true North because of the experience that we’ve had. So.
⁓ I just think that the world is lucky to have you that you’re doing this work with women.
Marysol James (27:35)
Thank you. Thank you. Like I said, I don’t have much to thank him for, but I can certainly thank him for this new direction that I’ve been pointed to.
Megan North (27:44)
Absolutely. Now, look, I’d love to dive into from a mental health and wellbeing perspective, but we will just take a short break and hear from our sponsors and then we’ll come back and we’ll we’ll dive into the I’m really excited to hear about, ⁓ you know, how you look after your own mental health and wellbeing through now and how you did that previously. So we’ll hear from our sponsors and we’ll be back in a short while. Thanks, Marisol.
Marysol James (29:48)
you
Megan North (29:52)
Welcome back to the show. here with Marisol James and we are talking about the work that she does with women, in particular with women that are coming out of narcissistic relationships. And so Marisol, because you’re on the other side of very stressful and narcissistic relationship, what do you do about your mental health and wellbeing? Like, how do you prioritize that? And are there certain things that you do
or rituals that you have that help you when you start to feel a bit of a wobble or you don’t feel like you’re in a great place.
Marysol James (30:30)
Yeah, it’s a very good question because people kind of assume because I am coaching clients and I’m speaking about this that I’m completely fine. I’m completely over it. It’s been two years and plus I left him and so on. It is not the case. As I mentioned, I think before the break, healing is not linear. And so I still I still have days where
I find myself missing something about him because again, I remember the man from the beginning. remember, I mean, I’m a single mother now. I am living in a very expensive city in the UK with my son who’s going to college. Life is getting more expensive, bills keep going up. And every once in a while I just think, ⁓ I wish somebody like I’m back doing everything myself again. Like that wounded strength has.
has reared its head and I’m back managing everything, including myself. There is no one that I can hand over to. So every once in a while I think, God, I remember when he promised me that. And I remember when he did that for the first year or so. And on days like that, those are not great days in my head because even though I know what’s happening, I’m aware of what’s happening, I name it, it doesn’t really change how I feel.
So on those days, I have to make a cup of green tea. I have to sit on my sofa in my living room with all my books in front of me, because I love books. I have to look out the window at the garden and watch the birds. And I find that just instantly kind of puts me back in my body. I find that starting my day with, ⁓ I make a cup of coffee.
I go back upstairs and I read in bed for 15 minutes. It doesn’t really matter what I read. I just need that little cocoon start to the day. And in terms of my mental health, feel like I’ve always had great mental health, which is a weird thing to say, but I’ve always been very strong mentally. My problem is more knowing things intellectually and then not really feeling them.
properly in some depth. So it’s more for me, my emotional health is what I find I struggle with because I’m best mindset in the world, but I’m just not feeling it. I know something and yet I’m still feeling a different way. And that’s actually what I have to work on. And so when I start to feel down on myself or I start to feel like, God, I wish he was here because at least I could just hand something over to him. And I know that I would have to
pay for it later, like it would be something that he would hold against me later, but at least I could get that relief for a few hours. I find it’s more in my my emotions than my head. And that’s when I have to kind of regroup. I need that meditation, either upstairs in bed or on the sofa watching the birds. And somehow that kind of clicks my mind and soul back into place. don’t know.
birds or if it’s being surrounded by my things from my travels that I love or it’s just that cocooning in bed but it clings, it’s almost like I see like the, you know the fruit machines that go around and around, I feel like things kind of clink into place and line up and that’s what works for me and so whatever works, whatever kind of gets your mind, body and soul in alignment is powerful and it’s very individual I think.
What do you do? What works for you?
Megan North (34:22)
different things work for me. So sometimes I need to go for a walk. My husband might say, you need to go and hug a tree.
Marysol James (34:31)
Yeah, exactly.
Megan North (34:33)
It might be going for a walk. Sometimes it’s, I’m a big British Bake Off fan and I’m a big great podgey throw down fan. Like I love all those shows. So some of it would be for me to make a cup of tea and just being on the lounge for an hour and watching an episode. sort of just, you know, closing out my mind. I think though it’s interesting just listening to what you’re saying because I think the biggest
The biggest challenge is being able to recognise it because once you’ve recognised it, it’s easy to shift it. You know, you usually have your little processes. It’s like, ⁓ OK, I’m starting to feel a bit wobbly. What do I need to do? Is it a cup of tea? Is it a walk? Is it a call a friend for you? OK, I need to make my green tea, go and sit in the lounge. But I think that if we can get to that point where we notice it and we recognise it, I think you’re already three quarters of the way there.
It’s that recognition. And then I always talk about having some things in your toolkit. So if you’ve only got five minutes, what can you do in that five minutes to just, you know, as you said, like that clicking, okay, for you that 15 minutes, just reading in bed can completely change the start of your day. So what are the things that you’ve got in your toolkit, varying times and varying ways that can help you in that moment?
Marysol James (35:59)
think that’s incredibly important. mean, what you just said about, it’s about recognizing it because there’s this thing that like the women that I work with before I kind of get to them, they start spiraling, like they spin, they get into this cycle where they get up, they’re already in a bad head space, so now they don’t feel great. So now…
They kind of drag themselves through their day. And because they’re not in a great head space, they’re not performing at work, which gets noticed because they’re normally a high achieving woman. So now they’re being disciplined or they’re getting some side eye or they’re being questioned, which just messes with their head, which affects how they feel, which just goes around. it tends to, and then one thing I hear a lot from the women that I work with is ⁓ they drink a lot to cope with.
the stress, there’s a lot of alcohol abuse, which then you get up the next day and you’re not great physically, emotionally, mentally, because you’re hungover or you had a terrible sleep or you’re feeling guilty about, God, I’ve done it again. So the problem is it starts to spiral. And I think that one of the most powerful, empowering things I can do for my clients, if nothing else, is I can get them, when they start thinking and feeling,
the way they do and feeling guilty about it like why do I miss him when I know he’s a narcissist? I know it was a toxic dynamic. I know if I went back it would only be worse but I still miss him. What’s wrong with me? And I say let’s talk about what’s happening here because as soon as you recognize it’s okay to miss your abuser. Like this is it sounds like it’s such a counterintuitive thing to say it’s okay. It’s normal.
Don’t go into a guilt and shame spiral because the farther down you go, the harder it is to get yourself back up. See it for what it is, which is you being human, tired, drained. You were fooled. You were targeted. You were taken advantage of. Let’s call it. Let’s call it what it is. And as soon as you do, you think, God, I miss when he did that. You go, you know what? That wasn’t real. He didn’t mean any of that.
That was something he did to get me under his control. I do not miss it because it wasn’t real. What I miss is having the confidence and knowing I can do it myself. I don’t need him to do it. Yeah. So once you kind of reframe it that way as yes, you feel this way, but now you know why and you understand that it wasn’t healthy, then you don’t start to spiral into that horrible
pit of despair and shame, you know, you can keep yourself out of it. Yeah. And I know what I’m talking about. I do know what I’m talking about on this one, because like I said, I still have days where I go, ⁓ God, you know. ⁓ And this is someone who has a very clear perspective on toxic relationships. But I understand how you can miss them. Yeah. And it’s crucial. It’s crucial that people understand that. Yeah.
and not be shamed for it and not feel shame about it. Yeah, yeah. ⁓
Megan North (39:24)
And so do you think that there is a misconception that high achieving women are somehow immune to narcissistic abuse, it’s assumed that those women will never fall for abuse or stay in it? What’s the feeling out there about that?
Marysol James (39:43)
100%, that is correct, Megan, unfortunately. There’s this sense that because you’re high achieving, you’re educated, let’s say you’re well traveled, you speak more than one language, you are somebody who can set a goal and work steadily to attain it. You’re strong, you’re independent, you’re smart, you’re savvy, you’re all these things. ⁓ There’s this sense that, and women feel it as well, that you would see an abuser coming.
you would spot them a mile away. And that is true of a certain kind of abuser. If you go on a first date with a guy and he’s throwing the plate across the restaurant to hit the server, okay, clearly you don’t go out with that guy again. This is not a person you want to be with, right? But narcissists don’t show up like that. They show up, as I said, as your dream guy.
They scan you and they figure out what it is you need, where you’re vulnerable. They mirror you. So suddenly everything that is your value or is important to you is suddenly theirs as well, amazingly. They show up as your dream mate. They show up as, there’s this sense, especially as high achieving women who… ⁓
You’ll very often can come across men who are threatened by your success or they think you’re too much. And suddenly there’s this guy who thinks it’s amazing you’re so successful. It’s amazing that you’ve traveled the world. It’s amazing that you’ve built up this company from nothing and you’re on six figures. Like amazing, amazing. ⁓ So this is how the narcissist shows up. He shows up with charm, support, love, ⁓
this almost x-ray vision into your soul, the stars have aligned and there’s your soulmate. And when that starts to flip, you are extremely confused because as a high achieving woman, you learn to, ⁓ when something starts to go wrong, you have been conditioned and your life has shown you that you can do something about it. You can fix it.
you can, if you have a conversation and communicate, it will only get better, right? This is what we are led to believe. ⁓ But the problem with the narcissist is there is no communication, there is no desire to fix the problem. There is only control and power and a desire to confuse. So there’s this sense that high achieving women should know better. We should see it coming. Aren’t we smarter than that? How can we this whole life of achievement and then we’re brought down by this guy?
And it’s so crucial to understand that the narcissist doesn’t show up like that as high achieving women were used to being threatening or being on our own or not celebrated for who we are. And so it makes us vulnerable to this kind of support and love. And this is why there’s actually another layer of shame for the high achieving woman is because
when we do start to talk about it or we do start to say, is what I’ve been through, there’s always this sense of, well, how did you let that happen? Like, how did you not know? Why did you stay in that for so long? You’ve got a master’s degree for God’s sake. Why? And it’s because it happens so gradually. And that amazing person from the beginning, we’re always trying to get back to him because we think he’s real.
We don’t understand it was all a gigantic mask. And when the mask starts to come off and we see the real person, we are confused. We think we did something. We think it’s about us. We think ⁓ I can fix this. We believe in the potential of things. So we know the relationship could be because it was once and how do we get it back? All of these things work against us.
keep us stuck. So that’s why high achieving women are targeted. This is how they end up in it. This is why they stay in it. And this is why afterwards they’re subjected to so much shame, both outside and internally. Being a high achieving woman makes you a target to a narcissist, not something that repels them. And until we understand that and really, really understand that properly, ⁓
we will continue to blame high achieving women for not seeing it coming. Because there’s this idea that abuse victims are beaten down or weak or uneducated or unsuccessful. It’s not true. For a narcissist, a high achieving woman is the pinnacle. And that makes a woman like that very vulnerable. And that’s not talked about nearly enough, I have to say. Yeah. Wow. Wow.
Megan North (44:50)
And so if you could say one thing to another, to other women, so particularly women that are listening today who are about to start over ⁓ and they’re starting to, you know, they’re listening to you and starting to get a few thoughts coming into their mind, what would be something that you would share with them? Like what’s the first piece of advice that you would?
Marysol James (45:14)
give to them. You’re not crazy. You didn’t imagine it. It’s not all in your head. Yeah. And this is where the confusion keeps them stuck is because there’s this sense that I remember with my ex, he would say or do something and I would immediately say what and then he would just flat out deny that he said or did it. And I would say you just did it seven seconds ago. No, I didn’t. Why would I do that?
I don’t know why you would do that, but you did. Are you sure? And his big thing was ⁓ dementia runs in my family, on the women in my family. And my mother is suffering from it very, very badly. And he knew my biggest fear was that I’m going to develop dementia in my later years. And he would, I swear to God, Megan, he’d look me straight in the eye and he would say, I think maybe your dementia is kicking in.
And he weaponized my mother’s dementia and my fear of it against me. So then the problem is, then you start to think, why would somebody who loves me, right, ⁓ tell me all these things? So you start to think, did that happen? Was that real? Is it in my head? Did I imagine it? Am I crazy? ⁓
And so what I would honestly say to women who are fresh out of it, who are in the spiral of confusion and did it happen and was it that bad? And is it in my head? You’re not crazy. You didn’t imagine it. And it was that bad. Whenever you remember him saying and doing. And the worst thing is there are things you suspect you think that because narcissists always have parallel lives, at least one. They have secret lives one way or the other.
And you suspect it at any time you brought it up. It was immediately flipped around and you were paranoid. You were crazy. In my case, my dementia was kicking in. It wasn’t your imagination. Everything that you think happened, it happened. Things that you suspect were happening, I promise you, at least 70 % of them were happening. It was not in your head. And this is crucial.
really important because the first thing that I get told a lot is am I the narcissist? Am I crazy? Did I imagine it? No, you’re not crazy. You’re not crazy. You’re confused, but you’re not crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Megan North (47:46)
And so, you know, I love that you’re sharing all of this. And as I said before, I’m really grateful that, ⁓ you know, that you’re here to be able to share and just talk about your experience before as well, because I just think it’s really important. So what ways do you believe that your personal story can inspire or impact others?
Marysol James (48:11)
Well, I think it’s just, it’s one of these things where if you just look at my life, like cancer survivor, ⁓ master degree holder, international business woman, international traveler, I traveled on my own to Cambodia, Bangladesh, India. I was so tough. You know what I mean? I was so, you know, and then I started this bestselling romance writing career and ⁓
you know, it’s just, I am one of these women that on paper, if we’re talking about on paper, where we talk about ourselves in the third person, right? Very impressive. ⁓ And I wrote, I built an entire writing career on healthy romance, love, what a good relationship looks like. Like, it’s not like it’s problem free, but healthy, open communication, trust, respect, all of that. And yet I still,
despite all of that, ended up in a relationship for six years with a man who I don’t even know who he is. Like, don’t know that man. I was living with a total stranger, which is terrifying to realize. And I think that the takeaway of this is a couple of things. First, like I said, I am proof that being successful and smart and all of that
doesn’t protect you from narcissistic abuse. And I think a lot of my clients find almost relief in that because they think, okay, it happened to her, it happened to me. ⁓ Right? Like there’s not something wrong with me because there’s nothing wrong with her and it happened to her. I think the second thing that people take away from my story is that when the relationship first ends, and it doesn’t matter if he ends it or you end it, it doesn’t matter.
you are completely shattered. You are completely devastated. You don’t know who you are anymore. I am proof that you can rebuild and you come back stronger with more self love and trust. You come back so much better after. It is possible to rebuild your life out of the absolute disaster that he leaves behind.
And you can know yourself better, you can love yourself harder, and you can trust yourself all that much more. So I think those are the two things maybe people could take away from me. I hope they can.
Megan North (50:44)
beautiful. Thank you. So I’m not, can’t believe that I’m actually going to say this, but can you believe we’ve only got a couple of minutes left?
Marysol James (50:52)
Yeah, really? That was fast. Another one.
Megan North (50:57)
So we’re to ask you the same question that I love to ask all of my guests before we finish our conversation. So what is one lesson or truth that you’ve learned on your journey that you wish you had known earlier?
Marysol James (51:13)
⁓ It’s interesting, it’s a lesson I knew before, but the narcissist kind of knocked it out of me, and it is trust your gut. I remember when I was traveling the world as a woman alone, and of course this was before cell phones, this was before internet, like this was a long time ago. My gut got me out of situations and avoided situations.
And so for years, people would say, I can’t believe you traveled to Bangladesh by yourself safely. And I’m like, well, I trust my gut. ⁓ then when I was with him, I lost my gut. He did or said things in the beginning. There were red flags, but I didn’t know that’s what they were. And even before I moved to England with my son to be with him, there were things that didn’t feel right in my body.
But I overlooked them because of this guy from the beginning. But looking back on it now, truthfully, my gut was trying to tell me something and I didn’t listen to it. And since leaving him, I’ve rediscovered the smartness of my gut, which is it’s never wrong. It’s really never. I don’t always understand what it’s telling me, but it’s never steered me wrong. So what I would say is something that I’ve relearned.
which is if something doesn’t feel right, if something in you is reacting to a person, a situation, whatever, there is a very good reason for it. Trust it. And I wish I had listened to it at the beginning of the narcissistic relationship, but ⁓ I’ve read, listen to it now. ⁓
Megan North (52:55)
That’s beautiful. Thank you. Yes, trusting that gut feeling it. Yeah, you’re right. It’s never wrong. ⁓ You’re right. It’s never wrong.
Marisol, thank you so much for sharing your story with us today. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation and I have no doubt that there is so many people that will listen to this that or watch this. And I think that there’s going to be a lot that they’ll be able to take away. So thank you for sharing your story.
Marysol James (53:25)
I hope so, thank you. It’s been a pleasure meeting you. And again, I love the name of your podcast. As a Canadian, True North, a North Star, and yeah, it speaks to me on some level that I love.
Megan North (53:39)
So pleased. And I’d also like to thank all of our amazing and dedicated audience, our supporters, our sponsors. And I hope that you all have an amazing, wonderful rest of your week and I will see you all next week. Thank you again, Marisol.
Marysol James (53:55)
Thank you. Bye everybody.
