Don’t Reinvent – Rediscover Yourself with Caroline Sposto | Ep. 4
Overview
My guest on this week’s episode of The True North Show is Caroline Sposto who turned her biggest life events into a passion and purpose that helps so many women to rediscover themselves. Over the last 10 years Caroline realised that there wasn’t a book anywhere to be found that had the advice or guidance she needed, so her deep love for writing was ignited and she wrote it herself. She didn’t reinvent herself, she rediscovered what lights her up and what was always within.
Bio:
Caroline Sposto is the author of “Savvy Survival: For Women Starting Over Alone Later in Life.” She wrote the book to offer the kind of support she wishes she’d had during some of her own toughest chapters.
Caroline has worn a lot of hats over the years—writer, performer, small business owner—and like many women, she’s had to start over more than once.
These days, she runs a modest business providing role-players for legal and medical training, and she shares what she’s learned about resilience, humour, and making life feel like your own again. She’s grateful for every chance to connect with others who are figuring things out as they go.
Social Media:
Website: www.carolinesposto.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spostoczarlengo
Transcript:
Megan North (00:40)
Hello, welcome to the True North Show, a show where we dive into the pivotal moments that ignite our guests’ passion, uncover the stories behind their purpose, and reveal the real life strategies they use to stay balanced and prioritize mental wellbeing. Get ready for inspiring conversations that light the way to living with intention and resilience while following your True North. I’m your host, Megan North, and I would like to thank our sponsors of the show. Quantum Awakening, Beth Lewis, Anne C. Clark, and our lovely guest who paid to be featured on this episode.
Now talking about our lovely guest, today we are joined by Caroline Spotstow. Caroline is the author of Savvy Survival for Women Starting Over Alone Later in Life. She wrote the book to offer the kind of support she wishes she’d had during some of her own toughest chapters. Caroline has worn a lot of hats over the years. She’s a writer, performer, small business owner, and like many women, she’s had to start over more than once. These days, she runs a modest business providing role players for legal and medical training, and she shares what she’s learned about resilience, humor, and making life feel like your own again. She’s grateful for every chance to connect with others who are figuring things out as they go. Welcome to the show, Caroline. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Caroline Sposto (02:15)
thank you for having me. This is going to be so much fun.
Megan North (02:18)
I know, I’ve been really looking forward to our conversation. So let’s dive in. So can you share what was the defining moment that led you to pursue your true passion and purpose?
Caroline Sposto (02:31)
Absolutely. Well, I’ll have to back up, I think, to get to a prelude to the de-phoning moment. I was a woman, very typical, I think, of many women in my generation. I got married in my 20s. It was, I suppose, kind of old-fashioned, but for me, it made all the sense in the world. I devoted my talents to the family, which was my husband and the children we had supporting his career and his goals and the children’s goals and whatnot and we were thriving. The business that I ran with him, though he really was the figurehead and got all the credit, was thriving. The kids grew up, they were off to the colleges of their choice and then kind of all at once things fell apart behind the scenes and by the time I was really aware of what was going on
it was a bit too late for me to do much about it. ⁓ On the one hand, I had lost my father some years before, but in my early 50s, my mother became horribly ill and I had a couple of brothers who got her power of attorney. And sadly, alcoholism had ravaged the family I grew up in. And so, long story short, everything ⁓ that I thought I had, in the family that I grew up in, including the house and all the belongings were gone. ⁓ Ultimately, the state took them all and sold them all at auction. My mother passed away and then everything else was taken. So the betrayal and all of that was ⁓ difficult for me. Meanwhile, the man I had been married to for many years, unbeknownst to me, of course, he would not announce this to me.
⁓ He was having a wild and torrid affair, midlife crisis is ⁓ kind of the cutesy name for it, believe me. I think it’s more than just a cute midlife crisis. But I was getting financially and materially gutted under my own nose at the same time. So I ended up having to start over from scratch, not only with nothing materially or financially to speak of or without much but with a lack of faith in the people that I thought I trusted. And so the family business, I was no longer part of it, no longer had a house, had to figure out what I would do professionally. And I didn’t look at people the same way that I had before. And so I had to recalibrate my view of the world, my way of being in the world and surviving in the world and my own identity. ⁓
and what I would consider later in life, I was about 53, I’m now 63, so 10 years ago it was quite a difficult time for me to process, to navigate, tread water and then move forward again.
Megan North (05:33)
Yeah. And through this process, I mean, gosh, I’m sorry that you went through all that. It must have been very tough time for you. But I suppose through that process of you being rock bottom and having to deal with everything that you’re going through, what was the one thing that sort of kept you going? is there a passion or the purpose or is there something that
rose up inside of you that kept you going.
Caroline Sposto (06:06)
Necessity. ⁓ The need to eat and put a roof over my head. Necessity kept me going. It really did. And that was true for a long time. I took a lot of ⁓ odd side jobs, piece-mealed my income together, and all of that. So at the beginning, was simply, if you’ve studied any psychology, and I think most of us have, we’ve read about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, where we start at shelter at the bottom of that triangle.
And at the top is self actualization. Well, I had been at self actualization and I was suddenly knocked all the way back down to shelter. So I had to lace up my boots and climb back up that steep ascent little by little. What kept me going at first was necessity, but it was also ⁓ just faith. And I will tell you the truth. I was angry at people and I, and I think if you,
Treat anger the right way at the beginning of a betrayal or a terrible tragedy. Anger can sustain you for a while. I’m not saying we don’t want to plot revenge, we don’t want to become a maniac, but the energy from that anger, it’s better than a depression that keeps you in bed day after day after day. At least I had that anger and it was kind of a fire inside me to sustain me. Now we’re talking about the first months. Beyond that,
⁓ Little by little, pieces of the dreams that I had kind of deferred and set aside started crossing my mind, crossing my path, and I began to see some possibilities. And so, you know, it was a matter of time, it was a matter of being open to new ideas. And ⁓
It also, I have to say, is a matter of acceptance. We have to accept when things happen, when there is loss, at a certain point we have to say, this happened and now what? So it was that now what moment, I guess.
Megan North (08:14)
Yeah, yeah. And those things that you’re talking about that, you you started the things that had been with you, but I guess had been put aside. Were you surprised when they started to bubble up again? Like were there moments where you thought, ⁓ actually, I remember that that was my passion or, ⁓ you know, I felt like I had a different purpose when I was younger.
Caroline Sposto (08:37)
absolutely. I think I was maybe a bit of a throwback, but I don’t think I’m unusual for a lot of women in my generation, perhaps brought up the way I was. I thought the most important thing, and really the most important thing to aspire to was to be a great mother, great wife, et cetera. And so the things that I pursued or took an interest in beforehand, I really did just pack them up into a little box in my mind and heart.
put them to the top of that closet, wherever it is, figuratively, and push it toward the back. But what happened is that one of the things I learned very early on was that when you’re suddenly alone after being in a family life all of your life and you’re 53 and you’re all by yourself because the kids are far away and ⁓ also when you’re betrayed the way I was, you start to doubt your friends. You have to reassess who’s really on your side.
I could not be comfortable and relaxed at home alone at night. And I say at home, I had no real home in my rental place at night. Now I’m gonna step back. I did not get a lawyer to garner the material side of my life or fight for it because I didn’t believe in divorce. I just wanted my husband to come back and stop this foolishness. So as a result, I ended up worse off. Maybe, maybe not, but anyway.
To pass those evenings, I started to get involved in theater again. I had been involved in theater until I got married, theater and some professional acting. So 20 years and more since the last time I had set foot on a stage or read a script, I started to audition for community plays because to me that felt like a safe environment. I had a place to be in the evenings. I was among friends and because we were working on the play,
everything I was to say and do was pretty much scripted. So it was an escape in its own way. So that was the first inkling of reigniting a deferred dream and passion. within several years, I ended up actually working professionally as an actress. And I never thought, I never had the confidence to think that would happen, but it does as long as we’re consistent. So that was one thing. The other was writing.
And the third thing was I had participated in business with my husband, my ex-husband. We had a business together and I had had another business with a partner. But to have my very own business was something that I never thought I would do or could do. And that little by little I was able to put that together as well. And that’s a whole other story.
Megan North (11:27)
Yeah, yeah. Wow. ⁓ It’s extraordinary. It’s a beautiful story that you share ⁓ of, you know, just that courage and just having to dig deep and just do what you needed to do.
Caroline Sposto (11:44)
You know, and it’s interesting we do, and I don’t know if you could hear there was a whistle blowing behind us. Did you hear that? I know what that was in case the viewer heard it too. ⁓ One of the things I always had a fascination with was a more nomadic life where I would find a way to work remotely and travel. And I’ve been doing a lot of that. So I’m in Mexico City right now and it’s evening here. And in the evening there are vendors that come around and there is a
I don’t know what the Spanish name is for this exact thing, but it’s a little steam engine where they cook sweet potatoes and plantains. And that whistle tells us that there are sweet potatoes and plantains to be bought out on the sidewalk. And so that’s what we were hearing.
Megan North (12:27)
Fantastic. Wow, that sounds delicious.
Caroline Sposto (12:30)
It is. The food here is absolutely delicious.
Megan North (12:35)
I could imagine. And so through all of this that you’ve been going through over last 10 years, how did you or how do you maintain balance and prioritize your mental wellbeing ⁓ when you’re going through this and particularly when you’re then stepping into a new space of pursuing some other dreams and some new dreams?
Caroline Sposto (12:58)
a number of things. think there goes the whistle of more sweet potatoes. One of the things is that what I’ve learned and what I hope if people watching gain one thing from watching this, remember whatever happens to you it’s not what happens, it’s who is around you when it happens. What this really did was it separated
Megan North (13:04)
I’m inviting.
Caroline Sposto (13:25)
the fake friends from the real friends, because when we go through struggles, some people will indulge in lot of showed and proud. And they will almost, you know, I don’t know why it’s just human nature, but my true friends and my new friends became dear friends, which they are. I, that gave me a sense of belonging and confidence. I have a faith in, I’m not a religious person in a traditional sense, though I do respect traditional religion.
but I have a strong faith in my creator and I always had this feeling that someone is watching out for me. so part of it was that I chose things to do professionally that I would enjoy. And when I couldn’t find things like that, because I did work in array of menial jobs and sometimes several jobs at a time for the first few years, I found fun in those jobs. I made sure that I always had fun in those jobs, because you can find fun in things.
And I mean, those were the main ⁓ reasons to have to stay balanced, I think. And also I took care of my health. Right. And that’s really important for us, especially if we are women of a certain age, we cannot take our health for granted. Not that we have to be fanatics and so picky about everything, but we have to set reasonable limits for our health. We have to get enough sleep.
We have to eat reasonably well. We have to get some activity and movement. And if we have bad habits to excess, and I say bad, destructive habits to excess, if we drink, if we smoke, we have to really take a hard look at those things because at this stage in the game, we cannot afford to take our health for granted. And when you feel healthy and energetic, you’re really able to take on quite a lot, I think.
Megan North (15:09)
Yeah.
Absolutely, I agree with that, yeah. And so is there like, are you a meditator or do you journal or do you do anything like that? Anything mindfully? Like if you go for a walk, you, you know, is there anything like that that you do?
Caroline Sposto (15:31)
You know what I like? I like two things. I’m not good at either of them, but I find them incredibly centering and relaxing. I love to play chess. I play chess online every day, several games. getting better. But I mean, there’s such a continuum in chess. know, it’s this, the way they rate you, it’s called an ELO score. And I mean, there are people, their score is 200 and then the grandmasters, their score is 2000. And we just…
We learn something after every few games. So I play a lot of chess online. I love it. have piano in this apartment. I am not a very good piano player, but I play the piano. I love to get out and walk. ⁓ So, I mean, I think those are the practices that I do. And I do like to go to the gym too, though I’m not a, if you looked at me, you might not know I go to the gym, but I go to the gym. ⁓
Megan North (16:22)
healthy is an outfit that looks different on everybody.
Caroline Sposto (16:27)
I would agree.
Megan North (16:30)
The thing is, you know, I really love that when I’ve asked you that, that there’s really different things that you do from a mindfulness point of view. And it’s one of the things that I think is really important. I’m really glad that you shared that because I think sometimes we get into that overthinking mode of how am I going to be mindful? Well, on social media, they’re telling me I need to meditate and I need to journal and I need to do this.
If that doesn’t work for you, then I love that you’ve found other ways that work for you.
Caroline Sposto (17:04)
Yeah, I can’t do those things. I can’t. And it’s just, if I…
a game or two of chess, it’s akin to meditation. I am completely focused on that game. And if you don’t play chess, I would recommend it. There’s a website, chess.com. It’s free. You can play games on there and get better and better. It’s a fantastic game for mindfulness, I think. I’m about to, well, I’m moving to New York again on July 1st, and then I’ve enrolled in an art academy. So on Saturdays, I’ll be in art school, which is something I’ve,
put my daughters through art school, now it’s my turn. So I will be drawing and painting on Saturdays and I’m sure that will be a good mindfulness exercise.
Megan North (17:48)
Yeah,
absolutely. And yeah, that’s really good. I love that because it is different for all of us. What works for you doesn’t necessarily mean works for someone else. And I love that you found what works for you. So yeah, thank you for sharing that.
Caroline Sposto (18:07)
Sure, I don’t know how people are about meditating. I need a little bit of activity myself. I have to just sit completely still. I will be, I don’t know, I don’t find it pleasant. So I think that’s why I think the drawing will be great for me, piano, chess. It’s just that little bit of hand and eye. But again, all of those things, I think the idea is to get us out of our, that monkey mind, that repetitive spin cycle of worry.
and I’ve got a tip if you are a worrier and you’re watching this, let me give you a good tip. Yeah, I like that. So I have something I call worry Wednesday. If I find myself worrying about something, I do have an envelope and I have little slips of paper and I write my worries down each on a slip of paper. If I’m getting into that spin cycle of worry and I just put them in the envelope with the stipulation that I cannot open that envelope till the following Wednesday.
Because if you use my worry Wednesday method, I promise by the time the next Wednesday roll around and you open that envelope, half of those worries will have taken care of themselves. Some of them you might not even remember that you were worried about, but by putting them on slips of paper and putting them away, you don’t feel they’re responsible. You have put them somewhere. They’re in there for safekeeping. They’ll be there when you come back.
but it releases them from your conscious mind and I think that’s good for us.
Megan North (19:38)
I think that that’s amazing. love that. think that’s a great, that’s a great tip because it’s you’ve written it down. So it’s out of your head. It’s somewhere else. And then you’ve parked it so that then you go, okay, well, good. I don’t need to think about that for, know, for the next Wednesday. So you, you almost just mentally switch off from it because you’re like, okay, I’ve, I’ve left it over there. I’ll come back to it.
Caroline Sposto (20:05)
And then what you learn, once you’ve done that a few times, you learn that you worry, I don’t say you, we as people tend to worry about a lot of things that will take care of themselves if we just put them in God’s capable hands and leave them there. We don’t need to control everything, but we don’t like to relinquish control of everything. So if we just say, I’ll deal with it Wednesday, a week from Wednesday, it teaches us something, I think. ⁓
Megan North (20:21)
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that’s fantastic. Thank you. I’m going to do that. I love it.
Caroline Sposto (20:34)
I had it.
It’s worth a try.
Megan North (20:42)
Yeah. All right. Well, look, there’s lots of other things that I want to explore, but ⁓ what we might do is just take a moment just to hear from our sponsors. So we’ll be back in about two minutes. So thank you. And we’ll be back soon. Thanks, Caroline.
Caroline Sposto (22:35)
you
Megan North (22:39)
Welcome back everybody. I’m here with Caroline and we have been talking about Worry Wednesdays, which has been fantastic. It’s a great tip. So thank you so much. I’ve already written a little note to do that myself. So over the last 10 years, since you’ve had to start over, I suppose, has your path to pursuing your passions and your purposes evolved over those 10 years?
Caroline Sposto (23:06)
It has, mean, just so remarkably. one of the things, it’s why I have one of the premises in my book, and I’m saying it now because I believe it so wholeheartedly, is that you cannot build a new life in the framework of the past. And I didn’t understand that, that when I was freshly out of that marriage that first year, I didn’t understand that I needed a new framework for a new life. And so,
I went out, I wasn’t destitute to the point where I had no money at all. had very little, but I rented a house. I cooked meals. I decorated the house for the holidays. You would think I had a whole family there. It was just me. And it was the most expensive, wasteful, depressing thing I could have possibly done with myself. But it was the only way I could envision life. And it wasn’t until I learned the hard, expensive way
in depressing way, that if I wanted a new life, I needed to just bust down that framework completely and then we’ll build another one. So I sold most everything. I met ⁓ at a coffee shop one morning this other divorced woman my age. Her name is Sylvia. We became fast friends. In fact, it’s a funny story how we met. I was in line to order my cup of coffee and I heard someone say, Caroline, Caroline.
And I turned around and looked and there was a lady my age with a little girl and another little boy. And I said, are you talking to me? And it turned out that no, was her granddaughter talking to her American girl doll whose name was also Caroline. But that sparked a conversation. So we ate breakfast together in the coffee shop and Sylvia and I became good friends. And then I learned she was going through a divorce, you know, around the same time that I had. And so
We ended up renting a two-bedroom condo together that second year that I was out of my marriage and it was a riot. It was like we’re very different. It was like the old show, The Odd Couple. I won’t say who was Felix and who was Oscar, but one was Felix and one us was Oscar. But we had a blast and we ⁓ met each other’s friends. We had parties and it was just…
It was like, I don’t know, Laverne and Shirley meets the Golden Girls or something. I don’t know what it was. But it was a fun year. And then she eventually remarried and I bought a really dilapidated condo that I restored and started my business. then one thing led to another. But the main takeaway for anyone who’s starting over, if you want a new life, I think it’s best or you’ll get better results if you don’t.
try to start the new life in the past framework. Because all that you’ll have is an imitation of the old life that’s pale, lackluster, doesn’t fit the way it used to. But if you start a new life with no expectations in a brand new framework, you you learn that you can have more freedom and ⁓ just kind of become more adaptable. Superpower, sorry.
Megan North (26:24)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s good. Yeah, absolutely. When you’re talking about the old framework, that a ⁓ reference to the old way that you used to think and the old structure of where you were in your past life?
Caroline Sposto (26:42)
Absolutely, because I had really dreamed of and attained that Frank Capra movie, Hallmark movie, ideal of the really lovely suburban house with the nice furniture and the nice china and the handsome husband, and the cute children and the picket fence and the dogs and this, that and the other.
And I did like that life, I did. And I would still be there had my circumstances been different. However, when the betrayal comes in, the financial ⁓ reversal to the extreme comes in, the kids are grown up to try and put myself in a smaller version of that picket fence Hallmark house and try to live the same way or heaven forbid, run out and find the next husband.
The whole thing would have been disaster. And so I had to just say I enjoyed those chapters of my life, but guess what? What I do next can’t be the same, so let’s not try to make it the same whatsoever.
Megan North (27:52)
Yeah, yeah. And so in the intro I did discuss that you’re the author of a book, Savvy Survival. So can you share a little bit about that and how that book came about and why you’ve written that book?
Caroline Sposto (28:08)
Of course, of course. Writing was another thing that I really got interested in and had some success with, modest success, but some success with after my marriage ended. I won some literary contests and this and that. But ⁓ when I was in my lowest moments, feeling quite alone and bewildered, I tend to love books. I tend to be a reader. I looked high and low for the book that would help me.
navigate and rediscover myself and forge a new path. I couldn’t find such a book. found these celebrity divorce memoirs where they were left with millions of dollars. And I found these aggressive divorce manuals written by lawyers that would tell you about how to wring out the last dollar and keep the house. Well, that wasn’t, I know that’s not me. I found books about your growing children. My children were grown and gone.
I couldn’t find any books that I thought made any sense for me. And I did find some books too that were so determined to make any woman in my situation view herself as a victim. And I don’t think there’s anything great about doing that. There may be some veracity to it, but it certainly won’t come to any constructive end. So I put that all aside, but then five years into…
rebuilding my life. was in an airport heading to New York City to visit. At that time both my daughters lived in New York City. Now one has moved to LA. But I was in an airport ready to get on the plane and waiting. And as I sometimes do, I think many of us do when we’re waiting for an airplane in those chairs, we scroll our phone. So I was scrolling the Facebook feed and a meme came up that said if
there is a book you want to read, but it hasn’t been written, then you must write it. And that was a quote by Toni Morrison. And that meme just smacked me right between the eyes. then minutes later, by magic, was ⁓ bumped up to first class, which was coincidental, but in my mind, it felt like an omen. I, so when we got to cruising altitude, I ordered a cup of coffee, took out my laptop and I started writing. And because
Life is busy because writing a book is, it can be a lot of work. ⁓ It had a lot of stops and starts. And so it really was a five year process from beginning to end until I got it all written, got it edited, and it was the book I wanted it to be. So five years later, the book came out. It came out last November.
Megan North (30:53)
Right. And so savvy survival. So is that then, are we talking savvy as from a financial point of view or just meaning the way that you think and that you approach things?
Caroline Sposto (31:06)
It’s an approach. There is some information about, ⁓ of course, about finances, though I’m not a financial expert. But one of the first things, if we’re going to mention money, one of the first things that I do advise any woman starting over on her own, or I suppose any man too, is get it through your head that you are now a one income entity or maybe a low income entity. You are not going to have the same lifestyle.
And the sooner you get your mind around that and accept that your lifestyle is going to change materially and figure out what you realistically can afford, can’t afford and scale down, the better off you’ll be. And I know women, I know one right now, I won’t say who she is, but she’s gone through a recent divorce. She’s over her head in some of her expenses because she…
does not want to give up the lifestyle that really took two incomes. And we have to be real at a certain point. The sooner we’re real. And once we get over that materialism, ⁓ the fun starts. I think the fun starts.
Megan North (32:21)
Yeah,
I imagine then it’s less pressure. I mean, look, I know myself, you know, I got divorced after 18 years of marriage and probably didn’t make very good financial decisions at the time either. And and I get it like you kind of just have to go, OK, well, this is where I was, but this is where I am now. And it’s almost just forget it.
There was a part of me from a forgiveness point of view, I just had to forgive myself for where I was. And you know, what happened, forgiveness everywhere. Took a long time for other people to be forgiven by me. But I think it’s just, you just then step into that, okay, ⁓ it’s almost like a breath of fresh air, isn’t it? It’s like, okay, this is where I am. I’m gonna release everything else. Now what’s next?
Caroline Sposto (33:12)
That’s just it. And then we think about the ways, I think of the ways, how am I rich still? I’m not rich in money. I’m rich in friends. I’m rich in curiosity. I am rich in ⁓ new experiences. We can make ourselves rich in taste. mean, good taste doesn’t cost any more than bad taste. Good taste is in the editing. So you can get the $3 thrift shop scarf and make it look like a million bucks. It’s a matter of cultivating our taste.
So we can be rich in memories, good memories. We have to maybe carefully edit those memories so that we only remember the best times, but that’s all right. I mean, I think we enrich ourselves and that’s the way I see it now. We live in a culture that I think is a consumer culture. I understand the economy has to perpetuate that way, but we don’t need to buy into all that consumerism and we don’t need to measure ourselves.
by the car we drive or the designer labels we wear or whatever. It’s better if necessary.
Megan North (34:18)
Yeah, yeah. But you know, mean, as you know, everybody’s on their own journey and they get to certain points at the time that’s right for them. So if you could say only one thing to other women who were starting over in midlife, what would that be?
Caroline Sposto (34:27)
Of course, yeah. ⁓
Be adventurous, be adventurous. Don’t be reckless. I’m not saying to be reckless, but be adventurous because a lot of things we’re afraid to do, no harm will come to us. Even if we fall on our face. If you wanna go out and sing, go to karaoke night and go sing. Even if you sing well or don’t sing well, nothing really that bad is gonna happen. You wanna try a job in sales? That’s a pretty easy area to get hired in. They’ll try you out in sales jobs.
because sooner or later they’re gonna see if you’re producing or not. Give it a try. You want to be in theater, you want to train for a marathon, whatever you want to do, just go out and do it. Be bold and daring because we get in the habit of being afraid of things and you have to stop and say, what’s the worst that could happen? And just try.
Megan North (35:31)
Yeah. And do you think that that hesitation, particularly for women who were starting over in midlife, do you think that’s got to do with confidence? Do you think it’s got to do with ⁓ not having enough confidence to sort of just give something a go?
Caroline Sposto (35:49)
Of course, I think it does. There was a wonderful book, I can’t think of the author’s names right now, it’s called The Confidence Code. And it talks about, viewers may have already read it, I wish I had written it, it’s brilliant. They studied girls, and they learned that up until about age 10, girls and boys have the same level of confidence. And for whatever reasons, and I think it’s socialization, by puberty,
Megan North (35:58)
⁓ yes.
Caroline Sposto (36:18)
the girls are significantly less confident than the boys and they tend to stay that way. And I think it’s a combination of our society, of our gender roles that we get used to, it could be the man that we’re married to, it could be our upbringing, could be the church that we go to. But for a lot of reasons, I think we are kind of conditioned to stay in our lane. And also our lives change more than men’s lives.
We’re incredible, I think we women at rising up to whatever duties are demanded of us. You know, whether it’s having babies and raising them, whatever it is, we rise up to those duties, taking care of our age and aging parents. But in doing all of that, I think we fail to give ourselves enough credit and fail to see the connection between those capabilities that we have of doing for others and how that would translate into
the same capabilities to doing whatever we set our mind to.
Megan North (37:17)
Yeah, absolutely. Can you think of a moment like over the last 10 years for you in particular, since you’ve been rebuilding that you’ve had an aha moment around confidence? Like is there a moment that you’ve done something that you think, ⁓ wow, that was really good?
Caroline Sposto (37:33)
absolutely. I to share not to ⁓ praise myself but to inspire other people because sometimes we will exclude ourselves before we include ourselves. And here’s an example. I had gone to New York. I was going to stay for a month. I got a cheap rental for a month. ⁓ Actually, this was about three years ago, four years ago.
And because I did some acting, I was reading audition notices and there was an audition for a play at the Orbach Center on 50th and Broadway. I had always watched things on TV that showed the room with the New York audition and I thought, oh, wouldn’t it be neat to just be in that room? And I was reading the casting notice and it was a courtroom drama and both of the expert witnesses that they were casting were males. And I don’t know where I got the idea, but I thought, hmm.
Hmm. What do I have to lose? So I found a way to get a hold of the people producing the play. And I said, you know, my name is Caroline Sposto. I’m an actress. I’m here in New York. I made myself sound like that was normal for me. It wasn’t, but we have to say that, you know, I’ve portrayed it that way. And I noticed in your casting that both of the expert witnesses happened to be men. Have you ever considered that it might be more contemporary to put a woman in one of those roles? And they said,
No, we hadn’t thought about that, but come on down and read. And so I showed up and my first week in New York at age, what was I, 55, 56, went in, read for the role and was cast. And so I had a stage contract in New York at the Orbach on 50th and Broadway for six months. Why? Because I…
just had the, I don’t even if you want to call it nerve, I had the initiative and a little bit of fearlessness. If I would have called them and they would have said, no, go away lady and hung up. would have left it at that. You know, we don’t force those things on people, but that I thought what, what’s the worst that could happen if I just call and make a suggestion. So I would encourage anyone if they’re in a situation where you think the door has closed, don’t.
Don’t walk away so quickly. You can say the words what if. In my case I said what if you had a woman in that role? It was just what if. It wasn’t pushy. Or you can ask hey have you ever thought about or have you ever made an exception? If we don’t ask for things we won’t get them. And getting to do that did change my life. It certainly changed that year of my life. so that was an important moment for me.
Megan North (39:56)
next
Yeah.
Caroline Sposto (40:24)
I learned an important lesson from that. And that was a nice lesson. It’s nice to learn a lesson from success, because I learned a lot of them from falling on my face, too. But that was a fun lesson to learn. Go ask for things. Why not?
Megan North (40:36)
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, and just even just asking the question or just querying, it’s that curiosity, isn’t it? it just, maybe a lot of other women had read it and thought, ⁓ they’re two males. well, and put it away. Whereas for you, you have that curiosity and that that confidence to just ask the question.
Caroline Sposto (40:59)
Yes, and I was the only woman there for that role at the audition. But I believe to this day that actually having a female in that role instead of two men was better for the play. I think it was more relatable to the audience and more contemporary. So I don’t think it was a selfish suggestion. I think it was good for the whole project, if that makes sense too.
Megan North (41:24)
Yeah. And so with all of the different things that you do, so with your acting and your book writing, do you think that is one more of a true passion and purpose than the other or do they work together? How does that work?
Caroline Sposto (41:38)
No, in fact, even here in Mexico, I’ve I’ve auditioned for some commercials and things. don’t know, actually, I don’t know how they found me, but they called me to do that. I got one call back, didn’t get cast. But no, I’ve thought about this a lot. If I could never act again, I wouldn’t really care. I like acting, I do. But if I could never write again, I would be devastated. The writing to me is much more important. And I hope I never have to choose, but if…
if it were to come to that, no, the writing is much more in my heart and soul.
Megan North (42:13)
Yeah, okay. And so with you pursuing that dream and having already written your first book, you busily writing another book at the moment?
Caroline Sposto (42:23)
I am. Yes, the next book is it’s about well, I have to write some other things too, because it’s a long story. I’m writing a vignette for a play festival that I started some years ago. ⁓ That’s that’s not even worth going into. But ⁓ the next book is has the same name as my business. It’s called Savvy Civility. And it’s about interpersonal communication skills, because I think in the post pandemic world,
in this hyper-connected digital world, we are losing our adeptness, our empathy, and just our general instinct for really communicating well with others. I’m also a certified etiquette coach. During the pandemic, I got some extra certifications, and that was one of them. I got it online. I’ve taught etiquette before, but I don’t really do that. And this is kind of an anti-etiquette book.
As my etiquette teaching was kind of an anti-etiquette thing, I don’t believe in party manners and white gloves. I believe that in standing on formality, you know the rules. I don’t believe in breaking the rules in a bad way, but the most important thing is the other person. And I have met people who are so fixated on etiquette that they’re almost scrutinizing other people, hoping they’ll make a mistake. And that’s not what it’s for.
I think it’s to have some convention to stand on. That way we know how we’re supposed to interact in certain situations. But this book is more about making people feel comfortable, making people feel supported, trusted, really listening to people, sometimes listening to what they’re not telling you, and handling people and handling yourself well. So the book is, it’s kind of part philosophical in the world according to me.
related a lot to my business that I run. My business is also Savvy Civility, where I send actors out to teach medical students bedside manner. I’ve got schools throughout the country and pools of actors near these schools. so that’s, you know, and I worked as an actor, a medical actor myself for five years as one of my many side gigs. And so I learned a lot in that. So part of the book is ⁓ about that. The other part,
art have some do’s and don’ts for us too, but in a humorous ⁓ way. It’s kind of an alphabet, A to Z section. And it’s designed to be a light read. It’s not designed to be, you know, some, I’m not Emily Post. It’s not, it’s not going to be that.
Megan North (45:03)
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. And it’s interesting when you were talking about, you know, the COVID pandemic and how we seem to have lost that real connection. I think one of the things that I’ve learned, particularly, you know, hosting this show and the other show that I used to host was my curiosity. Like I start to prompt and ask different questions now with people because I’m really curious about them. And I find
my conversations with people are so different because I’m practicing curiosity a lot.
Caroline Sposto (45:40)
You know, you could write a book about that. How do we engage in conversationalist by way of curiosity?
Megan North (45:45)
Yeah.
Yeah, I just think that when you’re curious, you just, I don’t know, you just, I want to learn more and more about people and who they are and why they do what they do. And I just find that that curiosity helps with my connection with people.
Caroline Sposto (46:03)
I agree with you because I’m talking to you and I have been, but I also know and I think you do too instinctively that curiosity in itself has its own boundaries for the sake of savvy civility. There are things we don’t ask. There are things ⁓ we don’t articulate. There are things that, you know, that because there’s a thin line between curiosity and nosiness. And if we develop the right sensibility,
We don’t ask, we can ask this but we don’t ask that. Or we can ask this question but we can sense if the person is not wanting to elaborate further, we don’t probe that question further. We won’t force our curiosity on others.
Megan North (46:47)
Yeah, yeah, I suppose your intuition kicks in a little bit, doesn’t it? Because, and as you said, it’s not just words, it’s also physical, you know, sometimes you might ask a question and you see the body language of how someone’s reacting to that and you think, oh, OK, maybe maybe I’m not going to probe that because they they’re looking a little bit uncomfortable.
Caroline Sposto (47:08)
And I think to some people, think if we question, and all people are vulnerable in some areas, and if there’s an obvious vulnerability, or just an obvious thing that we know people probably get reminded about a lot. I’m sorry, think tall people don’t need to be told how tall they are. So we don’t get into those things. are certain things we just don’t go into with people because they will really appreciate if they don’t have to hear that from us.
Megan North (47:36)
Yeah, that’s a really good example, actually. And so in what ways do you believe that your personal story and including your book can inspire or impact others?
Caroline Sposto (47:49)
I think if my book, I think a lot of people can find my book worthwhile. I’ve had some men buy it and read it and say, well, I don’t know why this is for women. I like it too. And I thought, well, because I talked about a lot of things that I thought were more for women. I think the book can inspire women to believe in themselves. I know it can. And how to do a lot of self-reflection. This, our society is so,
they spew out this mantra, reinvent yourself, reinvent yourself, reinvent yourself. And I say, no, I’m sorry. We’re not obsolete software. We’re not a computer, know, we’re not a broken down car. No, we have so much within us, especially by the time we’re in midlife, we do not need to reinvent a thing. We’ve got a lot to offer, but I think what we do need to do is rediscover ourselves. So I believe we need to look inward and find the areas
of magic within ourselves that have kind of gone dormant. For me, it was acting. For me, it was creative writing. Those areas have gone dormant. And also that feeling of independence, that ability to go travel and do things by myself, that had gone dormant too. So I’m all about rediscovering ourselves. And I think, well, I know that my book can help other women go from feeling a bit lost
feeling like you’re, I don’t know, you’re kind of looking at a big open field with no path and you’re all by yourself to saying, ⁓ you know what, I’m gonna forge a path. Once I forge that path, not only will I get somewhere, but the people coming after me will have a path. And that’s what I think anything I did, any woman can do.
Megan North (49:34)
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think that that’s really special. That’s really, really, really, yeah, it’s a great, it’s a really good point to make, I think. ⁓ Yeah, we don’t, yeah, we don’t need to completely reinvent ourselves because we are who we are.
Caroline Sposto (49:51)
We are, and I think too, so much of that, there’s too much emphasis. I think we should try to look nice, I agree with it, but there is so much emphasis on this external makeover business too. ⁓ by the time we get to midlife, yes, let’s look in the mirror and figure it out. Yes, let’s take care of our health, but I don’t know that we will be any happier if.
go get an extreme makeover, especially if we’re kind of a low maintenance woman and we get put on some higher maintenance regime. Let’s forget about that. Let’s concentrate on the other qualities we have.
Megan North (50:28)
And the enough within us as well, absolutely.
Caroline Sposto (50:31)
Yeah.
Megan North (50:33)
So can you believe that we only have a couple of minutes left? ⁓
Caroline Sposto (50:37)
But I can’t.
Megan North (50:40)
So I’m gonna ask you the same question that I ask all of my guests before we finish our conversation. So what is one lesson or truth that you’ve learned on your journey that you wish you had known earlier?
Caroline Sposto (50:58)
to trust my instincts. I think we tend to overthink and over intellectualize, but our instincts come from our subconscious mind that is picking up on a lot of information that our conscious mind can’t process. And so once we learn to respect and trust our instincts and our intuition, and I do believe women may be a lot more intuitive than men, but once we trust the instincts and intuition, I think we’ll save ourselves a lot of
wasted time. We’ll say yes to more things that are productive and we’ll say no to more things that are counterproductive.
Megan North (51:35)
Yeah, I love that. I love that. think that, you know, those that saying no to things that don’t work for us, I think particularly as we get older, I know that I’m a lot more savvy when it comes to saying no these days, where I wish that when I was younger, I was a bit more staffier with my nose. But yeah, I love that. I think that that’s a really, really beautiful piece of advice. Yeah. Yeah.
Caroline Sposto (52:04)
I think as we get older, yeah, we’re less worried about being so delicate about the known. Exactly. No, I won’t. Will you volunteer for that? No, I won’t. No, feel like you need it, necessarily.
Megan North (52:19)
Exactly. ⁓ thank you so much for bringing such beautiful energy to our conversation. I’ve really enjoyed talking to you and just learning more about you and the incredible, beautiful work that you do for so many women and ⁓ just for following your true North and for what you’ve shared. So thank you so much, Caroline.
Caroline Sposto (52:41)
Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun.
Megan North (52:44)
good. Excellent. ⁓ And I’d also just like to thank all of our amazing and dedicated audience, our sponsors, our supporters. I hope that you all have been a wonderful and amazing week and I look forward to seeing you all next week. Thank you again, Caroline.
Caroline Sposto (53:01)
Thank you.
you
